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A Quick Game of "What if?"

Hey guys,

I wandered over here from my home at Rock M Nation, where recently, my colleague The Boy further examined the implications and ramifications of Missouri's comeback against South Carolina in the 2005 Independence Bowl.

The win was obviously a HUGE turning point for the Missouri program, as detailed in The Boy's post. The win bought Pinkel extra time, time he used to build around Chase Daniel and finally push Mizzou into the top slot in the Big 12 North.

This much we know about what the win did for Mizzou, but I come over to GaBA to ask Gamecock fans exactly how that one evening in Shreveport affected your program. Where do you all think South Carolina's program would be right now if they'd gone on to stomp Mizzou in that game? Would SC have used that game to launch bigger and better things like Mizzou did?

I appreciate any input you guys have from a Garnet and Black viewpoint.

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Thanks for coming by!

Good question. I doubt that winning that game would have made a MAJOR difference, but we would have finished the season ranked if we had won and that might have made a difference in recruiting. It might have also given us more confidence going into 2006, so maybe we would have pulled out another victory here or there. Hard to say.

I can say that losing that game was very disappointing. That was a great season for us until the we lost to Clemson and then you guys, and we could have very well won both games and finished with nine wins and a top-15 final ranking. Wasn’t meant to be, I guess.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com

by Gamecock Man on Nov 16, 2008 8:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting thought.....

while I have many personal memories from that game, almost none of them actually dealing with football, I’d never thought of the impact on our program if the result were flipped.

Honestly, I don’t think anything changes. Sure, it’s a nice win to have, but I don’t think it picks up our recruiting class, SOS would have the same level of job security as he does this year, and we’re not winning more SEC games because of it.

While I don’t chagrin Mizzou it’s success, the most critical thing to happen for that program was for the Big XII North to take a downturn, giving them some oxygen to dramatically improve. That came from having the teams around them be weaker, which led to better results on the field and in recruiting (which then cycles back into better results on the field, and so on).

The more important game in USC’s recent history that could propel us higher would be the win against Tennessee. If they flub the new hire, there would be room for us to establish a foothold in 3rd place in the SEC East. While UT is historically successful, many similar programs (Syracuse, Nebraska, and A&M are three examples) have not yet recovered and rebounded to the glory of yester-year, and some may never do so. That’s the best thing that can happen to our program, and hopefully we can look back on that game in a few years as a turning point.

"I make love to pressure."
-- Stephen Jackson

by USCKB on Nov 16, 2008 9:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's a bit of what I wondered

The game obviously had some effect on SC, even if it wasn’t as much as it had on Mizzou. But whereas this game saved the Pinkel era, would much else have happened differently for Spurrier and Co. if they’d won? Does it have as much effect as, say, the 2006 Florida/Jarvis Moss game?

Pinkel for America '08
http://www.RockMNation.com

by RPT on Nov 16, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In a word....

Not much. The biggest wins that season were against Florida (which the Gamecocks hadn’t beaten since 1939) and at Tennessee. Those were much more important to the program. They were a sign that it was possible for Spurrier’s Gamecocks to beat the powerhouses of the SEC East. This undoubtedly helped recruiting in the talent- and program-heavy Southeast, which “The Boy” references in his original post on your great blog. However, a win in the Independence Bowl, which most SEC teams regard with disdain, would probably have done little for the Gamecocks.

Another thing to consider is the different trajectory the respective regimes were on—Pinkel was wearing out his welcome, while Spurrier had practically done the impossible (the Gamecocks were picked to win only 3 or 4 games in the 2005 preseason) in his first season. So a bowl loss for one coach would not be the same as a bowl loss for the other.

This would be the part of my comment where I say everything that USCKB has already said…solid comment, USCKB.

One more comment, then a postscript…I think you may have the wrong perception of the USC Gamecocks. Losses are nothing new for us, so whether it’s the 2006 loss vs. Auburn, Georgia, Arkansas, Florida or Tennessee….they were all bad. Or the five in a row to end out 2007. They all have an impact, no more measurable than the others. In fact, I’d say that the five losses last year had more of an impact. The losses kept USC out of a bowl, but they also led to the hiring of Ellis Johnson, who has vastly improved our defense.

PS—I’m from the South, but I spent several of my formative years living in St Louis (Lafayette HS, if you must ask the question), and I will definitely be pulling hard for MU vs KU. I was actually in the stands at Faurot Field for the 1997 Nebraska “kick ball” game. I had actually already jumped out onto the ground, just as that play went off…etc. etc. etc.

--Robert

by a gamecock fan on Nov 17, 2008 9:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've got to agree with USCKB and Robert

You have to remember, just being in a bowl at that point was an accomplishment — it was the first time since the 2002 Outback Bowl, and only the third since 1996 (I think; I don’t have the media guide in front of me). Spurrier was just starting, and it was a heck of a start; most of the “smart” people in the country were picking South Carolina to go 4-7 in 2005, not to play in December.

Honestly, I think the only speed bump for Spurrier so far has been the five-game losing streak last year — that hurt the Gamecocks with recruits, which is what Spurrier and the next coach need to take this program to the next level. (Consisent New Year’s Day bowls, a division title every few years, etc.) The talent deficit was huge when Holtz came, large when Spurrier came, and smaller but still big now.

It was a nice win for you all, and I will always shiver when I hear “Brad Smith.” But I don’t think the outcome of that game changed the program’s trajectory (to borrow Robert’s word) either — or would have, had the Gamecocks won.

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Nov 18, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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