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Offensive Genius? Not at South Carolina.

genius: something or someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight

There's no debating that Steve Spurrier has been a good thing for the South Carolina Gamecocks. His name alone has helped bring attention to Carolina. He's certainly done more than just bring his name, as well. However, after nearly seven seasons of doing little impressing with his offense, it can certainly be argued that the terms "offensive genius" and "offensive guru" should be put to rest. Geniuses adapt and evolve. They see new ways to accomplish great results. Or, they get passed by and people remember that they had once been genius, but aren't anymore. Steve Spurrier falls in the latter category.

At Duke, where Spurrier brought the "Fun 'n' Gun" to college football, he turned around what had been a dismal era of Blue Devils football and, in just three years, led them to back-to-back winning seasons and a share of the 1989 ACC Championship. How'd he do so much with less talent than his opponents? He had an innovative offense that defensive coaches were baffled by and he made excellent adjustments to what he saw from them. After 1989, Spurrier left Durham to head to his alma mater in Gainesville to take over a Florida Gators team that hadn't seen long strings of success. In 12 seasons at Florida, Spurrier won 6 SEC Championships and 9 of 12 SEC Eastern Division Championships. His overall record was 122-27-1 and his Gators teams never once lost more than four games in a season. Throughout the 90's, the "Fun 'n' Gun" was a dominant force on collegiate football fields. Steve Spurrier's offense was creative and it was exciting. It was genius. 

Fast forward to 2005.  After leaving Florida at the end of the 2001 season to test his coaching abilities in the NFL with the Washington Redskins and then sitting out of football for a year, Steve Spurrier becomes the head coach of South Carolina. He's back in the SEC where he'd reigned supreme for over a decade. Will the offense that vanished in the NFL make a return to college football? Nope.

South Carolina has averaged a total offense rank of 69 (of 120 FBS schools) since Steve Spurrier arrived in Columbia, good for 7th in the SEC. Comparably, the Lou Holtz-led teams averaged a total offense rank of 81 (9th in the SEC). Holtz certainly wasn't known as an offensive specialist and he led us out of a much darker hole than Spurrier. We were 6-5 in Holtz's last season, whereas as Lou inherited a 1-10 team with very little to excite an incoming coach. The talent level at Carolina under Spurrier has been higher than the Gamecocks have ever seen, yet Spurrier hasn't been able to consistently produce offense. In fact, only twice has South Carolina finished among the top 50 FBS teams in total offense. Listed below are the past and current finishes by the Gamecocks in total offense and scoring offense since Spurrier took the job:

Total Offense Scoring Offense

2005 - 100 (9*) 75 (7)
2006 - 20 (3)    44 (6)
2007 - 77 (8) 70 (8)
2008 - 97 (7) 96 (8)
2009 - 82 (9) 102 (11)
2010 -  47 (7) 38 (6)
2011 - 57 (4) 35 (4)
Avg.  - 69 (7) 66 (7)

*SEC rank listed in parentheses

Star-divide

College football has changed since Steve Spurrier was at Florida. He had far more talent on those Gators teams than most of the rest of the SEC. There's more parity today in the conference and outside of it than ever before. That's a good thing, but it makes it harder to do what he did again. And I don't think any realistic Carolina fan expected a repeat of what he put together in Gainesville, but I believe we all expected better offensive production that what we've gotten. I also believe we expected better overall results than we've gotten. South Carolina has not had a single season under Spurrier where the team lost less than five games. That's not very impressive. He never lost more than four in a season at Florida, and that travesty only happened twice. 

With Spurrier at the helm, no scholarship QB has yet started and finished his career as a Gamecock. Cade Thompson, Tommy Beecher, Chris Smelley, Stephen Garcia, Aramis Hillary, and Reid McCollum all washed out in one form or another. Only two of those guys were even capable of playing in the SEC at a high level. There was a time when most parents would have wanted to send their QB son to play for the Ol' Ball Coach. Not anymore. It looks like a mindscrew and a half from a fan perspective, and no one really desires to play in an offense that only works when executed to near perfection. That's my take on part of the problem with Spurrier's offense today. It's too complex for the guys we typically have to operate it, and without a very accurate passer who has smart receivers who are on the same page as him, it sputters. The QB needs to be able to see what Spurrier sees, and we haven't really had that at all. Connor Shaw may be the best chance for that, though.  

I recently heard West Virginia Mountaineers QB Geno Smith say that head coach Dana Holgorsen's highly regarded offense was simpler to run than his high school's. From my knowledge, Steve Spurrier's offense is no such thing. In addition, there's rarely a rhythm to the game and the tempo is poor as a result of not having the coach-on-the-field-QB mentioned in the previous paragraph. I don't think all the blame for the offense's troubles fall on Spurrier, but the point is that an "offensive genius," a "guru," makes adjustments and finds a way to excel. He hasn't done that. The Gamecocks have been in the last half of the SEC in total offense in five of his six complete seasons and have never finished better than 6th in scoring offense. Not only is that not genius, it's not even good. 

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Good article, and I can't say if I agree or disagree at this point.

I’m not so familiar with the personnel Spurrier had at Florida, but I think it would be a bit unfair to compare SC to FLA when we are just beginning to really win some recruiting battles.

What I do remember is that we mostly have had a good defense over the Spurrier years, solid receiver play, and huge question marks at running back or quarterback. Before Lattimore, we were inept at the tailback position so opponents totally disregarded the run and keyed on the receivers. Problem is, we were also either inept or very inconsistent at the QB position as well. Thus, against good opponents we usually got owned by their defense.

Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.

by walknbalk on Oct 24, 2011 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

But I do agree in the sense that Spurrier calls a good game here and there, but not all the time. I think there are a number of coaches that do a better job of gameplanning, such as Brian Kelly, Bobby Petrino, and Gene Chizik. But again, they have all had really good QBs in recent years.

Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.

by walknbalk on Oct 24, 2011 1:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Great article...

The results don’t lie, do they?

Despite my constant ramblings about developing an offensive identity, I think a lot of the problems have more to do with personnel than with scheme. Spurrier’s offense may not be innovative, but it still works when executed properly. A few observations:
—Keeping Hunt around as long as we did was the worst mistake of Spurrier’s tenure. For the OL, you rely on upperclassmen to finally get good enough to make things happen, and our upperclassmen were mostly recruited by Hunt. He utterly failed to recruit and coach up the line when he was here.
—As you point out, Spurrier’s work with QBs has been dismal. He’s failed to recruit enough talented QBs, and the ones he has brought in have burnt out for one reason or another. I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but I still think Chris Smelley could have been a decent QB for us. He had the physical tools and was a good enough student of the game to comprehend Spurrier’s schemes. Unfortunately, Spurrier fried his mental stability with all the craziness in 2007-08. Smelley should have never started over Blake in 2007, and he should have been given all or most of 2008. Starting Beecher and rotating Smelley and Garcia in 2008 was the height of insanity. Now, good QBs aren’t interested in us after watching what happened with Smelley and Garcia.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Oct 24, 2011 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

To really help the offense the thing I would do is bring in a Leachite.

The things those guys can do are outstanding.

My tumblr, where I post all my photoshops and other assorted crap that may pertain to college football.
"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you." - Edward Teach
"Wash away man, take him with the floods." - Floods by Pantera

by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 24, 2011 3:05 PM EDT reply actions  

This.

Except rather than Leachite, bring in Leach himself as the Head Coach after Spurrier. Im thinking the 2014 season (after Leach coaches 2 years at fill-in-the-blank mid major) when Spurrier will probably be leaving

by dcGamecock on Oct 24, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I personally think Leach would be a disaster here

I think must of us agree Spurrier hangs it up in the next two years. But I think Leach is radioactive. There are a lot of other names out there.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is odd.

But the ESPN machine and Craig James is what got Leach fired.

My tumblr, where I post all my photoshops and other assorted crap that may pertain to college football.
"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you." - Edward Teach
"Wash away man, take him with the floods." - Floods by Pantera

by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 24, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes sir

Its the numbers yup its true. He has fumbled around. I do think at the end of the day he has made is so much more attractive when and how he leaves. Its great to be a Gamecock we have a awesome future ahead of us.

by Cokadoodledoo on Oct 24, 2011 4:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I dont understand the purpose of your post

Spurrier is a Hall of Fame coach and player. Period. We’re not the ones who started to call him an offensive genius. That was his coaching peers and the media.

How does this article advance the ball? Are you saying Spurrier is a bust, so we should fire him? I’m not a total rah-rah guy (I’ve criticized Spurrier plenty on the comments here) but what are you saying?

Should I share this post with prospective students so that they can come to the conclusion that its hard to win at South Carolina? Didn’t we know that already?

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 24, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I give a more full critique below

but this is my real beef with Skulls’ post.

Picture a concerned parent of a child who is good enough to have a seat in the advanced class, but has never demonstrated academic prowess.

"I know my little Jimmy could do better in school! I’ve seen flashes of brilliance before! I know all the pieces could be there for an Ivy League scholarship! It’s not for lack of trying, or lack of money. We’ve given Jimmy all the tools he needs to succeed. No, it’s got to be the teacher! If only Jimmy had the right teacher! Most of his former teachers have been failures. Oh, sure. From time to time he’s scored an A on this test or that. But for the most part its been nothing but straight Cs and we had to let them all go for one reason or another.

I had such high hopes for this last teacher! Everyone … and I mean everyone … said he was a genius. His last pupils excelled! Straight A’s! Everyone said he had the best methods! I wasn’t expecting miracles. I mean, I didn’t expect Jimmy to be the salutatorian or anything. But Jimmy’s performance has been pretty much par for the course! Yes – its now mostly B’s, not C’s. But there are still too many Cs. And now it looks like he’s slding. I’m so upset. It must be the teacher’s fault. Some genius. Hmmph.

Teaching has passed him by. I’m not saying fire him or anything. But he’s certainly no genius. Jimmy’s lack of progress is proof of that!"

Who is the one who is blinded by emotion?

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

What am I blind to?

What about the numbers I posted say genius to you? What’s he done on offense at SC that displays genius?

Perhaps, it’s you who’s blinded by emotion. If you choose to be satisfied with finishing 69/120 in total offense and losing 5.5 games/yr and winning one of every five bowl games then that’s fine. Sounds about like what we’ve been doing for 100 years other than actually getting to bowl games. And that’s where he’s done a good job, as HC. As OC, however, he’s done poorly. The numbers don’t lie.

by Skulls and Spurs on Oct 25, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where I think you're off base

is that you assumed he would be able to create systemic change at Carolina at a faster rate, and higher level, than he has been able to. Since he hasn’t, you attack his football IQ. In other words, you think genius is enough to change decades of Carolina football mediocrity. I say it’s only just beginning to make a dent.

Unfortunately, Spurrier can only call the games. The players need to execute. I am not quibbling with your numbers. I’m agree that there are valid criticisms against Spurrier. I would like our offense to be better. And he should be better at bowl prep – we almost all seem to forget how dismal we are in bowl showings.

I don’t feel it does anything, however, to say he’s not a genius. In fact, it plays right into his critics and rivals. The brain is still there. The tools aren’t. The environment is not as conducive. Those are valid critiques. I believe attacking the man, though, is not.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Genius
I don’t feel it does anything, however, to say he’s not a genius.

What does saying that he’s a genius do, then? Besides perpetuate something that doesn’t line up with the numbers.

by opossum on Oct 25, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. He's obviously stupid.

We should join with all the others who say the game has passed him by. Of course they all cheer for other teams than we do, and cross-recruit the same players we do, but by all means let’s level ad hominem criticisms at Steve Spurrier because he hasn’t performed miracles and the numbers are all his fault.

I am flummoxed by this mentality, but its par for the course at Carolina. I just didn’t think it was par for the course at GABA.

When he goes into the Hall of Fame, however, feel free to say he wasn’t as much of a genius as you would have liked. It’s obviously his fault that we’re not playing in BCS bowls every year.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who said he was stupid? No one that I've seen. Just not genius.

Look at the definition at the beginning of the article and then come back and tell me that he fits that bill as the OC at Carolina. Take out other positives he’s contributed that I credit him with. Simply offense. He’s not been a genius at Carolina and no one has any evidence to prove he has. If you do, please present it and I’ll be glad to listen.

Everyone and their grandmother knows he’s a Hall of Fame coach. He’s done genius things. He’s taken SC to its greatest heights. But, as our OC, he hasn’t done a very good job. The numbers are proof of that. The fact that you claim that everyone who questions his ability cheers for another team is a ridiculous comment. Even if that were the case, should I blindly follow the herd?

Hasn’t performed miracles? Who asked for a miracle? All I’ve stated is that his performance isn’t “genius.” You obviously think he hangs the moon. You’re entitled to that, but at least make one relevant point as to what he’s done offensively at South Carolina that makes what I’ve said and what the numbers show false.

Lastly, if it’s not his fault that we haven’t played in a BCS bowl after 6 years, whose is it? Do we look like we’ll be better in the next few years? You yourself rec’d an article I wrote after the first three games of the season saying that the time to win is now. You called it a tall glass of the bitter draught of truth, I believe. How is this article any different?

by Skulls and Spurs on Oct 25, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You ask me to make relevant counter-points

but you have offered zero response to my detailed rebuttal below, so I am left with the conclusion that you have zero interest in engaging me on my main arguments.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh and i went back and read your 1st quarter analysis

you made some excellent points – primarily about the state of the D and the need for improved offense.

Thanks for throwing my compliment back in my face though.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If his resume were based solely on what he's done at USC, which is all I care about, he's done nothing impressive offensively.

That’s e point of the post. I’m tired of hearing how great of an offensive mind he is every other time someone questions him. He hasn’t shown that here. It’s not my job to advance the ball. That’s on the administration and staff. I’m critiquing our head coach as a fan. That’s part of what this blog’s about.

by Skulls and Spurs on Oct 24, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll have to admit I'm a bit surprised at the reaction this column has gotten, both here and at TBS.

I’ve seen a lot of “If you don’t have anything positive to say…” types of responses, which is silly. We have a right to be critical as fans, particularly if we’re doing so thoughtfully and reasonably. I don’t see anything unreasonable in your post. If you were calling for Spurrier’s head or saying that his tenure has been a failure, that would be one thing. But all I see here is criticism of his offensive coaching, and while you might quibble about the reasons why, it’s obvious that the offense is a train wreck right now.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Oct 24, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too, GM, but lots of views.

I still have yet to hear someone put up a relevant argument as to why they oppose the article. If the only thing that can be said is we should only write positive stuff, then it’s the ignorance is bliss approach and I’m highly oppositional to that. I do my best to analyze the Gamecocks without my fan bias. Thinking we’ll win every week and we have the best coach in the world would be idiotic when we have the history we do.

by Skulls and Spurs on Oct 24, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I don't get the ignorance is bliss attitude at all.

That said, I do think I might have one quibble with your argument. When you say that Spurrier isn’t an offensive genius, you seem to be mainly suggesting that his schematic philosophies are no longer innovative. They probably aren’t, but I’m not sure that’s his main problem these days. I’m more inclined to see his problem as being personnel-related—lack of quality OL and QB play. Although I guess it’s a chicken-and-egg thing. He could overcome the lackluster personnel with better schematic decisions, and he could overcome the poor schematic decisions with better personnel. Although I think it’s worth noting that most coaches will tell you that execution—i.e., personnel performance—is the biggest factor in success.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Oct 24, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see what Spurrier does with a complete team.

I don’t need to see superstars at every position, some superstars with some solid players mixed in.

We have that with Latt, Jeffery. Ace, Shaw and Ellington are developing, but Shaw isn’t that elite QB, and I don’t know if Ace gets open very much. I want to see what he can come up with when he has a dominating O line. I’m sure the teams he had in Fla weren’t perfect, but they were probably a lot better up front.

The first year we had a real collection of offensive talent was last year. And he got a 9-5 regular season out of it. This year was supposed to be even better, and at least the record says the team is better, but Garcia happened and it is what it is.

But I don’t remember any good QBs or RBs coming through here. Well, we had Syvelle Newton and Blake Mitchell. At least I remember their names though. Who were our running backs again?

I’m not good enough to know what goes on there on the sideline, but I have noticed sometimes he could have done some different things. Also, he is terrible about managing timeouts.

Was he a great, HOF coach? Yes. Is he still? No, but he is still quite good I think, and a lot better than anything we’ve had here ever before. He’s brought the program relevance and success. I hope whomever replaces him takes it even further.

Sorry for rambling lol

Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.

by walknbalk on Oct 24, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll probably get flamed for saying this...

But Blake Mitchell would be racking up crazy numbers right now with Alshon and the kind of pass-blocking we’re currently getting. Mitchell was a good pocket passer when he had time, and pass protection is one thing this line has done fairly well. Mitchell’s problem was that he was horrible under pressure and lacked the mobility that we’ve had more recently with Garcia and Shaw.

Boyd wasn’t a bad tailback in the early Spurrier years. Again, crappy o-line play was the problem.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Oct 25, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but I'm still not persuaded

The premise of your post proceeds as follows: (1) Spurrier is considered by many to be an offensive genius; (2) Spurrier was an offensive genius in the past; (3) however, since he arrived in Columbia, Spurrier’s Gamecock teams have had only mediocre success; (4) many of these problems relate to personnel decisions and recruiting errors; (5) QED, Spurrier is no offensive genius – the game has passed him by (“College football has changed since Steve Spurrier was at Florida”).; (6) I am tired of people defending him as an offensive genius when he hasn’t delivered leprechauns and pots o’ gold at Carolina.; (7) now that the season is shaping up as a disappointment, I’m ready to unload on the Old Man

Did I miss something?

First, I reject the premise that I am some sort of Pollyanna. I’ve leveled serious criticisms in Spurrier’s direction. GM has actually touched on many of them in his comments – Hunt (a total disaster as an OL coach and recruiter, not to mention a snake in the grass); Garcia; and the fact that Spurrier’s sideline antics have turned off a generation of QB recruits. So I am unmoved by strawman type arguments that all criticism of your post must be generated by a “Love is Blind” type attitude.

Second, you simultaneously engage in a classic logical fallacy in your post. Your main thesis (Spurrier was a genius at UF, but his USC teams are mediocre, therefore he can no longer be considered genius) is a classic non sequitur (fallacy of false cause) with a healthy dose of cum ergo hoc propter hoc .

The real reason we’ve failed to achieve consistent offensive excellence has more to do with personnel rather than Steve Spurrier’s football IQ.

Our offensive line has been a mess for years, and Spurrier can be criticized for taking too long to fire Hunt. But our offensive line was a mess under Holtz and Scott too. I can also go player-by-player through injuries or early defections to the NFL that hurt our team, too., at other key positions.

Our quarterback recruits have not panned out. Spurrier can be criticized for expecting too much or being too mean or just being too old to talk to them. But he was infinitely harder on Wuerffel, Palmer and Grossman. By comparison, Smelley, Beecher and Garcia were mollycoddled (yes, even Garcia).

Let’s not forget that Spurrier has been recruiting at levels previously unparalled at USC. Sure, we’ve had top flight skill players before. But we’ve never had this depth. And we’ve never recruited so well in-state. Or in North Carolina. Or in Georgia. Marcus Lattimore and Jadeveon Clowney are Exhibits A and B.

Unfortunately, with all that football talent in the Carolinas, there hasn’t been a legit top QB prospect in years out of the Palmetto State or even the North State. Willy Korn (who grew up a CU fan at Byrnes) was the last one I can think of. Russell Wilson (formerly at NCSU) was from Virginia. Georgia’s last two greats (Murray and Stafford) are from Florida and Texas. It’s hurt not having a homegrown talent, since to get top QBs you have to compete with more entrenched programs. Again – criticize Spurrier freely for not landing a big-time QB. But then look around and see how many programs are suffering because they cannot land a big-time QB either (e.g. UCLA).

On the other hand, I don’t remember Spurrier being criticized for changing his whole offensive game plan to focus on the run last year.

My final argument is that you’ve completely ignored the systemic mess that is Carolina football. We’ve never been great offensively for sustained periods. We’ve brought in former NC-winning coach after coach (Dietzel, Holtz); we’ve hired can’t-miss Coordinators (Scott); we’ve hired clean-cut, sure-fire 1-AA coaches (Woods); we’ve hired hardbitten guys with win-at-all-cost attitudes (Carlen, Morrison). We’ve tried everything. And its been pretty much the same-old, same-old – until Spurrier. He is the best of the bunch. But you’re not satisfied. He hasn’t lived up to the hype.

Well, the problem isn’t Spurrier. It’s Carolina. I love this university dearly, but it has a history of shooting itself in the foot. It has a history of rabid fans who eat their own the minute something goes off-track. It has a history of changing coaches without really having a good idea who should replace them. And it competes in one of the toughest football environments there is – against some great defenses (and offenses) – against teams that usually have better personnel and deeper rosters. But somehow Spurrier should come in here and snap his fingers and next thing we’ll be on winning streaks against Georgia and Clemson (wait – we are. Never mind).

This is the hardest job Spurrier ever undertook. He could literally have gone anywhere when he left the Redskins. He came to South Carolina. Into a much tougher situation than he had a Duke (with a Sr. QB and a veteran OL, playing in pre-Seminole ACC). It is a much tougher situation than UF (inheriting Emmett Smith and a Charlie Pell’s talent-rich squad in a State that would soon be producing more homegrown major CFB prospects than any other state). It was even a tougher gig than coaching for the excerable Dan Synder.

So, in sum. The problem isn’t Steve Spurrier’s genius. And it’s unfair (and probably based on emotion – being angry at the current state of affairs) to say that it is. In the end, Spurrier is the best thing to happen to Carolina football since I became a fan. To run him off now – or attack his football IQ – is counter productive.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Dana Holgorson

He has coached some pretty interesting offenses (Texas Tech, Ok State). And he has had some pretty good players (Michael Crabtree, Gino Smith).

But if you saw the Syracuse-WVU game on Friday – particularly the end – I don’t see how you come compare Holgorsen favorably to Spurrier. The game was a fiasco. The ‘Cuse do not have the talent or depth of WVU. Yet the Mountaineers completely wet the bed. Holgorsen’s clock management at the end was indescribably bad. He is not even in the same league as Spurrier. If Gino says the Mountaineer playbook is simpler than his h.s. playbook, I don’’t know if that reflects more poorly on him or his coach.

Most Mountaineer fans (and I have a passel of ‘em in the family) are down on Dana Holgorson now. They think he’s going to dump them at the first opportunity. And to be charitable, his previous career in major CFB has been peripatetic at best. I personally feel a guy like Dana Holgorsen would be a disaster at Carolina. Ditto Mike Leach. If we hire a former Red Raider, I’d rather it be Ruffin McNeill.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops I thought this one was lost in the ether

so i re-wrote it. But both posted mea culpa. Never claimed I was a computer genius (heh).

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Dana Holgorsen

No one who watched the WVU-Syracuse game would be very impressed with his offense right now. WVU is much more athletically gifted than the ‘Cuse on both sides of the ball. But the Mountaineers totally wet the bed against an inferior team. The clock management at the end of the game was awful. I have a passel ’o WVU fans in the family, and they are not happy with Dana Holgorsen at the moment. They also think he’s going to bolt them at the first opportunity (and that has been his pattern recently).

I don’t see Holgorsen being in the same league as Spurrier. Not even close. Holgorsen is Hal Mumme redux. Gimmicky offenses, squads held together with shoestrings and bailingwire, nothing to show at the end of the day except empty promises and off-the-field distractions. I think a guy like Holgorsen would be a disaster at USC. Ditto Mike Leach. If I am forced to take a Red Raider coaching alum, give me Ruffin McNeill any day.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

These are great posts...

A couple of things, though. 1., I don’t think you’re a Polyanna. I can, though, see how arguing against being “counterproductive” could be taken that way, although certainly you’re much more articulate than the people downvoting Skulls on TBS. 2., Skulls clearly acknowledges that Spurrier has benefited South Carolina immeasurably. He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he wants to run Spurrier off. I doubt that he would even if this season bombed out with only eight wins or so.

I’ll try to add more to this conversation later, when I have time to wade through more of the comments.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Oct 25, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good post

This has been my biggest gripe with the team this year. Spurrier’s trying to fit a square peg into round a hole. When healthy Lattimore is the best player on this team. How he gives Garcia the ball more times than Lattimore is beyond me. It wasn’t a guaranteed loss if Garcia got more touches but absolutely every single loss last year and this year Garcia had the most touches. That to me is an issue with the coach not the players.

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by Timothy De Block on Oct 24, 2011 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I would admit Spurrier stuck with Garcia too long

and should have benched him at the beginning of the second half of the Auburn game. But I disagree that Spurrier was disregarding or limiting Lattimore’s touches.

In fact, he was being roundly criticized (especially in the national media) for relying too much on Lattimore -trying to ride him too hard to compensate for Garcia’s deficiencies under center. You can bet opposing coaches are pushing that meme in our recruiting battles with top RB prospects (heck – they’re probably also telling our QB recruits that the Old Man has abandoned the pass too).

My personal belief is that Lattimore was already dinged up by the Mississippi State game – and it was showing in his production numbers against MSU and Auburn. Every one was keying on Lattimore. I regret that we called pass plays in the second half against Aubie – but if you pass on 1-and 10 and incomplete, then everyone expects a run on 2 and 10 – so you pass. if that is incomplete, then you’re cooked – 3 and 10 is a known passing down. And there you go. But if your complaint is that Garcia was running the ball too much before his benching, I also have to disagree with that. Garcia was actually pretty good running the ball this year – almost like a FB. His feet weren’t the issue. It was his head, his heart and his arm that killed him.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I used to run sub-8 for ten miles...

The issue is about what has been happening this season, not Duke, Florida, DC, etc. The play calling has been erratic and/or predictable.

But, what bothers me more than the play calling is the lack of cohesiveness, the lack of players acting as a unit…which is the time-honored mark of a quality team and quality coach. Watch LSU or Bama, and that’s what you see. Dead ball penalties are a sign of an uncoordinated team, and we have plenty.

Part of this is caused by frequent changing of personnel which destroys unity. But, with players of this age, unity comes from inspiration and establishing unity as a goal. I think any coach who comes to the college level from the NFL has to re-learn what makes them tick.

The angst comes from knowing how talented and unorganized this team appears to be.

by gungadin on Oct 25, 2011 7:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Im just not buying that your criticisms support the conclusion that Spurrier is no longer a genius.

Yes, the play calling has been erratic and predictable – at times. The paranoid part of me wants to explore GM’s open question as to whether our signals are compromised. The rational part of me says it’s because the first five games were spent trying to dumb down the offense for a fifth year senior and the last two games were spent trying to bring along a sophomore who has the head and the heart, but not the high-end skills. Again – I have criticized Spurrier for having us in a position where our back up QB is unseasoned – but that happens at programs that recruit as well or better than we do (e.g., Clemson, FSU).

On the other hand, the Emory & Henry sets are fascinating. We tested them against UK and pretty much shelved them for MSU. But I expect we’ll see them again against UT and Arky, with different variations. Complain all you like, but I think those sets argue in favor that Spurrier still has a very high offense-IQ, not against it.

The other problem is the offensive line. We knew it was good but thin going into this year. The only veteran standouts were Nunn, Johnson and Watkins. Nunn is done for the season. Johnson has been playing mostly ok. Watkins has been forced to play out-of-position and has been dinged up. The other guys are not as strong or newbies who will develop as time progresses. A lot of the false starts and dead ball penalties go directly here. Nunn was probably the guy (besides Lattimore) we could least afford to lose.

I’m not sure what you mean by frequent changing of personnel. We roll a lot of guys on the D line, LB and secondary – but defense hasn’t been the problem. We’ve had to bring in more OL for the above-mentioned injuries. As far as offense goes, our senior QB had a complete mental and moral collapse. Our RB corps has been decimated with injuries (Lattomore and Carson out for the season; Miles and Baker limited with severe sprains). As far as receivers, I think we’ve played a core rotation …. Jeffery, Sanders, Ellington and now Byrd. I don’t see where the complaint comes from about “frequent changing of personnel” other than to cover for injuries.

I get the angst, though. I truly do. I feel it too. I think its misdirected, however, by attacks on Spurrier’s football IQ. This team has had major distractions (Garcia, NCAA investigation) and major injuries (Lattimore, Nunn) and plays in a tough league (say what you will be about the East – it only looks bad in comparison with the West, not in terms of other conferences). Spurrier has led us through with one loss so far.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

additionally

The defense is almost always a more cohesive unit. They talk to each other and develop a variety of situational support techniques. The offense has to be a well-timed machine with everyone doing their job precisely. You can see the defensive comaraderie on the field. But I just don’t see anything close to that with offense.

I’m not condemning Spurrier. We’ve seen flashes of offensive brilliance…we just want to see that ole ball coach work some magic on a regular basis. There’s plenty of time left.

by gungadin on Oct 25, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all can agree on that

but at the same time, we can’t expect miracles. We’ve lost three key starters who all received pre-season All SEC attention. As fans, we need to re-examine our legitimate expectations for this team. We need to be prepared for a 1-1 record on this upcoming road trip (and perhaps 0-2). We need to be prepared for the fact CU is playing better ball than we are right now, and we won’t be favored against Clemmy. We need to understand that 8-4 is not the end of the world. I personally believe we can gut out 9-3 or even 10-2 if the ball bounces our way and Shaw really progresses. But reality is reality.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Oct 25, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll comment on the rest of this later...

But Spurrier is the one who said after the Auburn game that our signals are compromised. And it would be hard to argue based on how Auburn and Miss. St. ran run blitzes every time we ran the ball. Spurrier said they would work on it.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Oct 25, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Managing Expectations

I am continously haunted by the first game at USC ever coahed by Spurrier. Blake Mitchell was somehow turned into a gunslinger in the trasition from Holtz to Spurrier and for the first time in years it seemed we had a dominant passing came that the OBC was known for. It still seems to me that as erratic as he was Mitchell is the only QB who came close to fitting the OBC mold and could really throw it around when hot.

I am hopeful that Shaw can figure it out and work into that as well and still feel good about the rest of our season. With our defense we have the chance to win every game even Arky and Clempson. But Tryptic is right, we need to manage our expectations. To this date the only good team we’ve beaten is Georgia. With Lattimore out and Shaw lots of unknowns.

I must say I love the possible wrinkle of an undefeated Clempson team coming into Williams Brice against a great SEC defense. Would be all that much sweeter if knock them off.

Fortunately for me I live in Northern Virginia and don’t have to put up with constant harrassing from Taters (minus my father-in-law). Of course the folks up here are still trying to convince me that VA Tech and VA is heated rivalry, but I am not buying.

by ArmyCock97 on Oct 25, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Settle down! For some levity, everyone should go watch Kelcy Quarles' presser Q&A from earlier today.

Guy just warms my heart. All smiley and seems really eager to give thorough, untemplated answers to those questions. Loveable guy, that one!

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by Gamecock'n'Balls on Oct 25, 2011 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Unbiased observer

Skulls got the better of tryptic in this argument. And it wasn’t really that close. I’ll call it a 7th round TKO.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Oct 28, 2011 5:26 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

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