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Is Georgia Trying to Convince the SEC to Move the South Carolina-Georgia Game to Later in the Season?

ATHENS GA - NOVEMBER 27:  Head coach Mark Richt and Hairy mascot of the Georgia Bulldogs celebrate their 42-34 win over the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets at Sanford Stadium on November 27 2010 in Athens Georgia.  (Photo by Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images)

As you probably know, conference expansion has created some uncertainty regarding the schedule for next season. We've discussed the possibility that we may see a change in our permanent West opponent, although there's also been talk that it will remain Arkansas. Another possibility that's being thrown around is that the traditional ordering of opponents will change. For years and years, we've played a fairly consistent order of Eastern opponents and Arkansas. The game against Vanderbilt changes occasionally, but we typically play Georgia in early September, Kentucky in early October, Tennessee on Halloween weekend, Arkansas the next week, and Florida to close out the SEC slate. That may change next year. And one of the particular changes that's apparently being discussed is that Georgia wants to play us later in the year.

As some of you are probably aware, there's a persistent myth among Dawgs fans that the only reason we ever beat Georgia--indeed, the only reason the game is ever anything other than a four-TD UGA win--is because the game happens early in the year. I've had to sit through more than one absurd conversation, disbelief in my eyes, as an UGA fan tried to convince me that UGA would enjoy a series record against the Gamecocks that would be more like Florida or Tennessee's if only UGA could get us on their November slate. Nevermind the fact that UGA has been Florida's whipping boy nearly as much as we have over the past 20 years, with the case similar with Tennessee until the Vols' recent decline. I've never quite understood why UGA expects to dominate us just as much as a team that has utterly dominated them has, but there it is. The truth behind our historically poor November performance, IMO, isn't that we don't have the depth to play hard into November; it's that our November schedule is backloaded with traditional powers. If the depth argument was ever true, moreover, it's probably not anymore, as Carolina has upgraded its recruiting over the past few years, hence the demise of the infamous "Orange Crush."

Despite the presence of cold, hard facts that appear to suggest it will be a futile effort, it appears that UGA supporters are in Greg McGarity's ear, urging him to strike while the iron is hot and to have the USC game moved to mid-season or later. I'll have to admit that I'm really annoyed about this while thing. Part of it is that it just really irks me that this fanbase has such a deep-set inability to admit when it gets beat by a better team. But part of it is about tradition. Opening the SEC slate with this game is one of Carolina's most cherished football traditions. It's something we look forward to every year, and the game gets a fair amount of media attention as one of the more significant early-season SEC matchups. Losing that over a fanbase's petty, irrational denial complex would be a crying shame.

Granted, it's fair to say that Georgia has a lot less to lose here than we do. Georgia has many SEC rivals, whereas we're still in the process of trying to carve out our identity in the conference. You won't see me argue that point. The game simply means more to us. Still, I don't see why we should have to give the tradition up, given the situation. As one of the four schools intent on keeping a permanent intradivisional rival, UGA is already forcing concessions from the rest of the conference, most of the members of which would prefer to do away with the scheduling imbalances created by UGA, Auburn, 'Bama, and Tennessee's rivalries. The least the conference could do is let the rest of us keep a few of the things we want. I certainly hope that Eric Hyman isn't rolling over and playing dead on this one.

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As a Tennessee fan, I wish we'd do this with Florida

they’re the opener of the SEC season, and we close with SECW rotational (Arkansas, Ole Miss, or MSU—LSU and Auburn play us early when we play them), Vandy, and Kentucky. It’s horribly unbalanced, and it’s frustrating.

That said, Florida’s schedule is not horribly unbalanced, and I don’t imagine they’re pining away for Tennessee and Florida State consecutively to close out the year.

Carolina/Georgia has even more reasons not to move. Georgia’s schedule isn’t half as unbalanced as Tennessee’s, and Carolina’s schedule is more unbalanced than Florida’s (because who wouldn’t want to close with consecutive games against Tennessee, Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, and Clemson?)

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 11, 2011 10:44 PM EST reply actions  

You make a good point here.

I do think that schedule balance has an effect on performance. Having to play several tough teams in a row can be rough. You need a cupcake game in there to give your stars a rest and regroup.

That has nothing to do with Georgia’s reasoning, though. There are various versions of the argument, but they think that it’s the earliness of the game that counts. Most of them say that it has something to do with our lack of depth. Others think it has something to do with our hopes still being high at the beginning of the year. Regardless, they think that we’re a poor November team but a great September team. The truth is that we play an unbalanced schedule that has historically allowed us to race out to a nice early-season record, only to lose games late when we play the toughest teams on our schedule in November. The team we field in September and November is the same—it’s the opponents that change. And it shouldn’t be surprising that our November record has changed as we’ve gotten better and the November opponents have gotten worse (Florida and Tennessee) or not kept up with our improvement (Clemson).

And the truth is, the scheduling imbalance is a good reason for this game to stay the way it is. We have a crappy enough schedule as it is. It’s not fair for the SEC to make it any more backloaded than it already is.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Dec 11, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Counterpoint

If we’re given a choice between accepting a Georgia game later in the year – and, say, being forced to take LSU as our new permanent Western rival … .then by all means I’d say let ’em move the UGA game. It might be our only bargaining chip from getting screwed by the SEC front office.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

Call me insane. But I would love to play LSU every year. I hate that we just seem to not be able to beat them. It’s LSU and Auburn that we just can’t beat. Even if they are having a down year, we just don’t play well enough against them to get a win.

But I would love to trade trips with LSU annually.

- FOW

by skandrewj62j on Dec 12, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok ... I'll call you insane

but admire your bravery! All things being equal, I’d rather meet LSU on a neutral field, uhmmm, say the Georgia Dome in late November?

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

UT-UF always seems to be on CBS.

And for good reason, but a lot of years, like this year, it is the first SEC football game on CBS. Getting good coverage certainly should help with recruiting. TV is probably the main reason I would want to keep it. Although, most years the game would still be on CBS, I believe it’s almost guaranteed as it is now.

- FOW

by skandrewj62j on Dec 12, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

A couple of comments
I’ve had to sit through more than one absurd conversation, disbelief in my eyes, as an UGA fan tried to convince me that UGA would enjoy a series record against the Gamecocks that would be more like Florida or Tennessee’s if only UGA could get us on their November slate.

Carolina’s all-time winning percentage against Georgia is 25%. It is 21% against both Florida and Tennessee. I don’t really consider those to be any different. Even over the recent period that Florida has dominated Georgia, South Carolina only won 7 of 20.

But part of it is about tradition. Opening the SEC slate with this game is one of Carolina’s most cherished football traditions.

That statement right there shows a lot about the difference in perceptions between Georgia and South Carolina. I doubt we consider anything that only dates back to 1992 to be a “cherished tradition”. Similarly, I don’t think many Georgia fans look forward to starting the SEC slate with South Carolina; rather, we look forward to getting that game over with. A win over the Gamecocks won’t make our season a success, but a loss can certainly wreck it.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 11, 2011 11:08 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, Carolina's record against the three teams is fairly similar, but the Carolina-UGA game is typically a hard-fought game for UGA, whereas Florida and Tennessee used to trounce us fairly regularly.

Most of the time, the UGA argument was that UGA would enjoy similarly large margins of victory if it played us late.

As for your other point, I don’t disagree. I get that it’s more important to us. I think I made that clear. But I also think it’s fair for the SEC to respect some of the things that are important to us.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Dec 11, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I get where you're coming from
As for your other point, I don’t disagree. I get that it’s more important to us. I think I made that clear. But I also think it’s fair for the SEC to respect some of the things that are important to us.

But you and I both know that’s not how it is going to work. Decisions are not going to be made based on a tradition that only goes back two decades. That’s the reason we have a team from Missouri playing in the East just so Alabama and Tennessee can play every season.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Fisheries nailed it - in the sub-text

The Georgia fans love their traditions. The privet hedges. Glory, Glory, Georgia . The WLOCP. The Auburn Game.

Among their favored traditions is contempt for USC. It’s not one of their trophy shelf traditions. It might not be “We stepped on their face with a hobnail boot” but it’s not far behind either. Georgia loves to disdain us. We’re a chore. A game to get past to get to the good stuff. Losing to USC is like getting stuck on the Poor Farm in the Game of Life. Giving up the contempt would require an almost existential change in world view. And that ain’t gonna happen.

I love the power of contempt, however. We want the game more badly than they do. And all things being equal (and the squads are very similar now – except for UGA’s outrageous lead in media coverage of course), that is going to give us an advantage.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 11, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Great post. Saying there's no tradition between USC and UGA has become something of an UGA tradition, funnily enough.

Over the last two years, more ink has probably been spilled over this idea in the Georgia blogosphere than over any of the other UGA rivalries, save the Cocktail Party.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Dec 12, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe...
I love the power of contempt, however. We want the game more badly than they do. And all things being equal (and the squads are very similar now – except for UGA’s outrageous lead in media coverage of course), that is going to give us an advantage.

It sure doesn’t do much for Georgia Tech, though.

The reason South Carolina has won the past two games isn’t because they wanted it more. It was because they had a better team and/or played a better game.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 7:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think UGA holds Tech in contempt for a plethora of other reasons

than it does USC. Techwood. Tech girls. Etc. & so forth. They’re also your in-state rivals (even though you’ve owned them).

I appreciate your take that the “better team” won or at least “played a better game,” which puts you in the majority of UGA fans I’ve encountered this season online, most of whom say that UGA was the better team but gave it away. While x’s and o’s have their place, not to mention pure athletic talent, their is still room in any CFB game for heart and desire …

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I obviously meant to say "minority" rather than "majority"

I think y’all could puzzle that out from context. In any event, it’s hard as a fan of any school to accept that turn-overs are often forced, rather than given away. Just like at the Chik-Fil-A Bowl disaster last year, it was my initial reaction to say Garcia in particular (plus fumbles by normally sure-handed Lattimore and Jeffery) cost us the game, rather than concede – truthfully – that FSU just beat us and was the better team that day.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I think Georgia and South Carolina were very even teams this year.

Neither were great, but both were pretty good. Both teams finished the regular season 10-2. The game between the two teams was about as even as you can get without going to overtime.

Yeah, we made some dumb mistakes in the South Carolina game that probably made the difference in the outcome. The other side of that coin, though, is that South Carolina didn’t. Even though Georgia shouldn’t have allowed it, South Carolina pulled off the fake punt. Even though Aaron Murray should have tucked the ball and taken a loss, Clowney threw him like a rag doll and caused a fumble. That’s just the way the game works. Garcia played that game like he had just been on a 3-day bender but the Gamecocks still managed to overcome his awfulness.

I think if you play that game ten times you probably come out with one team winning six at best. I certainly would have liked our chances against a Lattimore-less South Carolina in November this year, but that’s when we play y’all and we didn’t play a good enough game to beat y’all. And at the beginning of the season, when it counted, I definitely think South Carolina was a better team than Georgia. I have no idea about the end of the year because we still haven’t beaten anyone with much of a pulse, and were blown out of the water by the two teams we played that are significantly better than South Carolina.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post. I agree the teams were evenly matched. I also agree that things might have gone in UGA's favor another day.

Of course, another thing that might have happened would be that UGA loses a close but lower-scoring game. Just like UGA was capable of playing a game without as many TO’s and special teams gaffes, USC’s defense was definitely capable of playing better. At any rate, USC won the game this time around, and that’s what matters.

A lot of the UGA fans who complain about the way this one went down should remember that they’ve been the beneficiaries of a few weird games in this series—Mike Davis fumbling into the end zone, the game with the Pollack strip and Pinnock fumble, etc. Most UGA fans would say that what matters with those games is that UGA won, and they’re right. Same thing applies to the 2011 game.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Dec 12, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

I had that exact same conversation with a South Carolina fan eating dinner at a bar downtown after the game. He seemed almost in disbelief that South Carolina finally got the weird breaks to come out ahead in a Georgia game.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Typical uga fan

sentiment much like that of clemsux, those that live in the was. Yes we are fully aware of our history but we also try to live in the present. This clown seems to forget that the national title they own is due in large part to big George coughing it up while we were driving it down their throats to win the game. Oh yeah, that was 1981. While we are building a solid program and tradition, what has uga done recently except lose to us two years in a row, starting to look like a trend. Go MSU!

I like playing the game early because it is a barometer of how our season goes. But another part of me says let the entitled have their way and we will win regardless. Accept what the SEC hands down, with reason of course, and play it where it lies. We will win in Columbia next year regardless of when the game is played.

Go Cocks!

by wilmywoodcock on Dec 12, 2011 7:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Huh?
This clown seems to forget that the national title they own is due in large part to big George coughing it up while we were driving it down their throats to win the game. Oh yeah, that was 1981.

What a weird thing to brag about. That would be like me trying to brag that South Carolina wouldn’t have won ten games this season if Aaron Murray and Isaiah Crowell hadn’t fumbled our game away this year. By the way, it was 1980. We won the 1981 game 24-0.

While we are building a solid program and tradition, what has uga done recently except lose to us two years in a row, starting to look like a trend.

Won the division that both of our teams compete in? A football season is made up of a lot more than a single game against a school’s fourth- or fifth-biggest rival.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Well said, Gamecock Man

It’s already implied when referring to UGA fans.

by BrisketBiscuit on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I should show more class

but am sick and tired of the lame uga people coming into our blog with their attitude toward our program. It is obvious they have no respect for USC. I am not sure why they feel like they are an elite football program, they are good no doubt and historically have our number but these people need to stop living in the past. We are here to stay, get used to it.
Go Cocks!

by wilmywoodcock on Dec 12, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a very myopic perception.

UGA has plenty of respect for opening against USC. What we don’t have is a few point there is any tradition involved. Getting a win in this game in the last decade is a major hurdle to getting into the meat of the schedule, alternating between easier games and rivals. As we proved this year, it’s possible to win the East with a loss, but it sure wasnt easy and required a 10 game streak. By the same token, a win against SC doesnt guarantee the east, but it lifts a little burden.

As far as “living in the past” – you have a current 2 game streak. Congrats. We also in the present won the east, you didn’t. Where does the past end? 2 years ago? The last decade? When you feel like it if you won? If UGA wins against SC next year, will we be “living in the past?”.

Its a hard fought early contest and sometimes unpredictable. It’s an SEC matchup and they are all important.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Dec 13, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

That picture is creeping me out,

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"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you." - Edward Teach

by RjTheMetalhead on Dec 11, 2011 11:17 PM EST reply actions  

Good.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Dec 11, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Was it on their honeymoon?

My Tumblr, where the photoshops go. | EDSBS steam group. |
"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you." - Edward Teach

by RjTheMetalhead on Dec 11, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you imagine a similar picture with the HBC and Cocky so ... closely and seriously ... embraced

“Hairy Dawg, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you’ll understand that. Now, now… Here’s looking at you kid.”

Awkward!

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 11, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess UGA changes their bye week to before the UF game and it helps them win,

so now they are going scheduling crazy? I really do enjoy opening the season with Georgia. It may be a tradition that’s only 20 years old, but I don’t really see any reason to change it. It’s not like the game isn’t getting enough exposure where it is.

The last 14 match-ups between the schools have been nationally televised, dating back to 1997 (6 on ESPN2, 4 on ESPN and 4 on CBS).

That’s taken from the South Carolina Gamecocks Football wikipedia page. I know, you can now riddle me for such a laughable source, but moving on — It gets plenty of coverage, probably moreso for the Georgia name than for the matchup.

We have similar schedules really, don’t know what UGA would want to change it. We both usually open with a non-conference game, although next year we’re supposedly opening with Vanderbilt, then we have the Border War, then some more non-conference game and SEC West opponents, UGA usually plays UT the same weekend we play Kentucky. Then we play Tennessee the weekend they play Florida, we both have an SEC West team in November as UGA plays Auburn and we play Arkansas. Then we close with an ACC rival.

I just don’t get it. Really. For as much as UGA spent time defending playing the schedule in front of them, why are they trying to tweak things so much to get an edge. It’s not like losing to us early kept them out of Atlanta. (I don’t whine about UGA’s schedule, so please don’t take it that way. they played who was in front of them and won fair and square).

- FOW

by skandrewj62j on Dec 12, 2011 9:28 AM EST reply actions  

I agree with you ... 20 years is not a bad time-frame to start to a tradition

though I don’t disrespect FisheriesDawg’s take that, by UGA standards, 20 years barely registers on the radar. The late, great Larry Munson called games from 1966 to 2008 – 42 years – and that is just the modern epoch of Dawg football.

I will need to go back and double-check, but in the early days of the 12 team SEC, in the early and mid-1990s, we played UGA right out of the gate – opening weekend, without any cupcake or tune-up game. My recollection is that UGA used it’s clout to put a stop to that, but that the league couldn’t (or wouldn’t) move the game deeper into the season.

Either way, as long as most of the current Gamecock and Bulldog players have been alive, it’s been one of the early season match-ups, and there’s no real reason to change it IMHO.

In any event, to placate the sensibilities of our traditional-minded friends from the Peach State, I would note that the Cocks first played UGA in 1894; in the modern era, if my calculations are correct (!) we have only failed to play them 7 times since 1958.

True, UGA has had the whip hand in the series, but we’ve fought and clawed, and one more than a handful too.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugh ... "won" not "one"

I should note that with a few exceptions, most of our tilts with UGA have come within the first three or four games of the season – so there’s a fairly established history of meeting them in an relatively early game, for whatever it’s worth.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I really enjoy the September matchups with Georgia. I would be sad to see them go.

Also, I don’t want anything to jeopardize the time of year we play Kenutcky… as in early October Keeneland is still in race season.

- FOW

by skandrewj62j on Dec 12, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

We can relate...

We played Kentucky during race season from the first game in the series (1939) until the SEC moved the game behind the Florida game in 2004. The game was earlier last season, but went back to late November again this year. There’s no telling when it will be next year with the Vanderbilt of the Midwest joining our league.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

FWIW...

Georgia and South Carolina never played in early September until divisional play. From ‘74 to ’89 it was the last weekend in September (outside of the ’80 game being played in November). Before that, it was played in November or October. In fact, 29 of the 63 games between the two schools have been played in either October or November, so it isn’t like there isn’t precedent for playing that game later in the season.

As to the first game deal, Georgia-South Carolina opened the season only four times, from ‘92-’95.

by FisheriesDawg on Dec 12, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Fisheries is forcing me to look

1958-1964 … .always the first Sat in Oct. 3-2-2 in favor of UGA .. usually our third game
1966-1971 …. first Sat in Oct. until 70-71, then last Sat in Oct. .. 7-0 UGA … usually our third game
1974-1980 …. last Sat in Sep until 80, then first Sat in Nov, … 5-2 in favor of UGA … usually our third game
1981-1989 … last Satin Sep … 6-3 in favor of UGA … usually our fourth game.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 12, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I like it in Week 2 or Week 3.

It doesn’t always open the SEC sked. A few years ago even it was week three and we have opened up with Vanderbilt before. I guess moving UGA later would really only annoy them more though. As we would have potential to go longer without having a Loss. All joking aside, it feels like it has a home in week 2 or 3. Why move it?

And like I said in my original comment, it is getting plenty of media coverage and has even had a visit from Gameday in 2004. The exposure is great for both schools, not just USC.

- FOW

by skandrewj62j on Dec 13, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be sad to see this game go from it's usual slot

I doubt the league would change it though. Over the last decade or so, this has become the premier early season SEC match up as well as getting more and more national media attention. This game is almost always fantastic to watch and just seems to set off the new SEC season the right way.

by heymanne on Dec 13, 2011 12:16 AM EST reply actions  

I keep forgetting 11-1

while Spurrier was a uf and now that we have won two years in a row they may be getting a little nervous and may want to change the schedule.
Like heymanne, I always liked the SEC season to kickoff with uga, while we may not be au, uf or any other elite SEC program there is an underlying rivalry especially concerning recruiting and proximity.
However, changes are coming with the two new additions and we just need to play them when and where they are scheduled-and win!

by wilmywoodcock on Dec 13, 2011 7:32 AM EST reply actions  

Are you serious?

You’re going to reference Spurrier’s record against Georgia from his time at Florida (as if that has some sort of influence on the current series) and then couple that with your two (TWO!) game winning streak, and we’re getting nervous?

I assure you, there’s no attempt to come over here and be dismissive, and if you think that’s what FisheriesDawg was doing in his posts above, then it seems like you’ve just gotten it set in your head that Georgia fans are dismissive, because most other folks read his posts (including the blog manager) and considered it to be level headed.

I think there’s a lot of confusion about what counts as a dismissal. I always look forward to the Carolina game early in the year as well, and I’d never want to have it changed…most certainly not because I’m nervous about losing it. To me, it seems like the difference between the Georgia fan’s approach to the game and the Carolina fan’s approach is simply perspective. For the foreseeable future, Carolina will never be higher than 4th in terms of SEC teams with whom Georgia has a rivalry. Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee will take the three top spots based simply upon historical precedent. That’s not a dismissal of Carolina at all, it’s just the way it is in terms of who Georgia counts as their rivals. From a Carolina perspective, however, it makes complete sense to want to have Georgia as a rival. We’re neighbors, we’re in the same division, you’ve enjoyed slightly more success against us than you have against the Vols and Gators, and it’s very hard to have any sort of rivalry with Arkansas when you’re halfway across the country from each other, even if you do play every year. You run into Georgia fans on a regular basis, so it’s easy to talk trash and build that rivalry. However, just because it’s not as big on our rival list doesn’t mean we’re dismissing it, it’s just that it means more to Carolina folks than it does to us.

If your mileage varies, then I apologize, but I can assure you that the dismissal didn’t come from me.

by hailtogeorgia on Dec 13, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

He should have added "you lost to BSU" to go for the full monty.

Sure, 11-1. We still have a winning record against you and UF. And the UF piece is swinging our way big time.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Dec 13, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a fair post, hailtogeorgia.

I would like to point out, though, that UGA has a significantly longer history with Carolina than it does with Tennessee, as Georgia didn’t always play UT regularly before the introduction of divisional play.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Dec 13, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's true.

I think with Tennessee, it just has more of a feel of a traditional rivalry. I’m not sure if that’s because we have a history of big plays there (for instance, Herschel’s Bill Bates run and subsequent breakout game, the Hobnail Boot play, Sean Jones fumble return for a TD, etc.) or if it’s just because of the series being generally more competitive in terms of W/L ratio, but I’d say that most Georgia folks consider it number three. In the Augusta area and on the border, though, that very well may vary.

by hailtogeorgia on Dec 13, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this is a good post

and really sums up my point. Neither you, nor Fisheries, nor tankertoad are among the UGA fans we would consider dismissive … like the majority of SB contributors, y’all are the elite of your fan base. Nevertheless, we’ve gotten bombarded for years by UGA fans on Dawgvent and AJC, so that colors our perspective.

I’d be happy to be UGA’s 4th rival. I agree with hailtogeorgia’s post below that UGA-UT had become exceptionally important during 12 team SEC era (particularly once CMR came to Athens). I’d love to have that same intensity of feeling on both sides surrounding USC-UGA into the future.

All that notwithstanding, I still stand by my original assertion that contempt for USC is handed down father-to-son(daughter!) in the Sanford Stadium, and it makes us (at least as fans) want it more than a garden-variety border rivalry.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Dec 13, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I joked on Dawg Sports earlier about USC's place as a rival.

Are we really a rival of UGA, well competitively for 2012, yes(as both teams will be the front-runners for the East). But in the sense of tradition and rivalry, probably not. Even as much as you dominate Tech, do you think you would still put Tennessee ahead of Tech? I have read some of the comments by Kyle, and the Georgia rivals subject is interesting to say the least. Especially when you consider the generational differences. If you ask a grandparent who UGA’s rival is they’ll say Tech. If you ask a parent, they might say Auburn. If you ask a kid they will say Florida. I think that’s how he had it worded.

About Tennessee I think the big moments helps, although there are certainly big moments with Carolina when you consider Mike Davis, David Pollack, Billy Bennett. No I think it has to do with Tennessee competing with UGA for SEC titles and SEC East championships. Hopefully, USC will be able to sustain its momentum and we’ll both enjoy some fantastic matchups, I just hope USC is able to win a few of these fantastic match-ups in the future.

- FOW

by skandrewj62j on Dec 14, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

On your last paragraph...

you’re right. It is definitely influenced by the fact that Georgia and Tennessee have competed for SEC Titles on a perennial basis (atleast up until 2007, basically). There are definitely big plays in the SC series as well (most vivid being Pollack’s pick), but you’re right, those play stand out more in the mind when they’re tied to winning the division.

Given the way the division is currently looking, the next few years could certainly change the UT/USC order w/ regards to Georgia’s rivals. I don’t think Carolina will supplant Florida based simply on the continued suffering the Dawgs have suffered at the hands of the Gators, but that series seems to be turning around (we’re one interception in overtime away from being 4-4 with them over the past 8 years). The next two or three years will tell a lot about Carolina’s status…if they can seize the opportunity of taking over the reins from Tennessee, then it will be big. If not, it will be another case of opportunities squandered in Columbia.

by hailtogeorgia on Dec 14, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

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