The South Carolina Gamecocks and Oversigning, Continued: The Latest from the Wall Street Journal
We obviously broached the oversigning topic at the right time here at Garnet and Black Attack, because the issue came home to us as hotly as ever today in this WSJ piece, which features provocative responses to the issues from Steve Spurrier, Bobby Petrino, and the crown prince of oversigning himself, Houston Nutt. The issue has become more compelling than ever, and I expect it to be the topic du jour this summer. Moreover, as Blutarksy points out, Spurrier has become one of the focal points of the conversation, so it's going to be something that's on our radar even more than it is for others.
Based on my reading, I took two things away from the article. First of all, Spurrier comes off very badly, and that's not good for Carolina. As always, it's worth questioning the way Spurrier is being painted here. Jordan Montgomery's coach goes on the record as calling Spurrier scum, and the article makes it appear that Spurrier doesn't have a rebuttal. Is that the case, though? With the Lorenzo Mauldin story, the AJC crapped on Spurrier's handling of the situation, but Chris Low and other scleaned up Spurrier's image somewhat when they pointed out that Spurrier and his staff had, in fact, been more upfront with Mauldin than the AJC suggested. The same may be the case with Montgomery. That said, lines like this from Spurrier don't make a believer out of me:
"What we probably could've done earlier in the recruiting is tell them that this could happen," he said. "But then again, we didn't know it was going to come up. It's a ticklish situation."
Characteristic of this sort of journalism, the quote lacks the context needed to sufficiently clarify some of the points--i. e., what was said to Montgomery and what wasn't?--but still, it doesn't inspire confidence. As I've said before, I'd like to see the NCAA and SEC construct a sensible solution to make it more difficult for unscrupulous coaches to exploit oversigning loopholes, and I'm definitely against any coach who fails to transparently convey a recruit's situation to said recruit and then cuts ties with the recruit when it becomes convenient. The above quote makes Spurrier appear to be in this category. If that's the case, we need to hold him accountable and voice our opinion as fans that this behavior is not acceptable. It will eventually come back to haunt us on the recruiting trail and, moreover, is ethically dubious. That's not what we want for our university.
Continue reading after the jump.
The second thing that jumped out at me about the article is that it broaches what might be the fundamental issue at stake in the oversigning problem in the SEC: the low socio-economic and educational status in lower-class, primarily African-American communities in the southern states. In other words, the coaches interviewed seem to suggest that what's driving oversigning is that they know that there will be frequent academic casualties due to the poor academic background provided by their recruiting pools, which prompts oversigning as the coaches attempt to compensate for anticipated holes in their rosters. As Blutarsky says, the article steps gingerly around the issue, as the point doesn't lend credence to the picture its trying to paint of the coaches. Evil sells, as the saying goes, and pointing out more fundamental, structural socio-economic problems makes this a much less appealing problem to many readers.
I'll go ahead any lay my cards on the table, here: I think that if one accepts what the coaches and WSJ are implying, one has to at least entertain the possibility that, depending on one's perspective, we should be ascribing oversigning not just to the coaches and institutions but also to either individual students' failures to make the grades or to our states' and nation's failure to foster the educational needs of these students, who are again mostly poor and African American. Being someone who recognizes the role history has played in bringing us to where we are today, I'm in favor of the latter option, which means that, as we discussed in yesterday's comment thread, the state of Georgia has a lot of responsibility for how the Mauldin scenario played out, perhaps a more fundamental responsibility than Spurrier. I'm not, by the way, picking on Georgia here; certainly, the state of South Carolina has its own problems to deal with.
With this in mind, my question to critics of oversigning is this: if and when the oversigning problem is dealt with by the NCAA / conferences and your football team's lack of a competitive advantage on the playing field is no longer at issue, what else are you going to do to solve the real issues? My guess is that there are a lot of folks out there who only care about this issue in terms of how it relates to their football team, and that doesn't sit right with me. It goes without saying that those whose only motivation is football are going to frame the issue in a way that doesn't deal with the real problems; they're going to approach it in a way that ensures their football programs' success, not in order to benefit the kids involved.
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I'm sorry, but I just don't see the big deal.
Recruiters shouldn’t even have to keep reminding these kids that they’re on a bubble. One of the first questions out of a kid’s mouth when he’s looking at a university should be about what the academic standards are for gaining entry and staying on the team. They should know whether or not they’re going to make the grade before signing day. They can also go to one of many college recruiting websites and see whether they’re likely to make the team from a talent standpoint. I had to maintain a certain GPA to keep my scholarships. I routinely did evaluations of my grades, and what I needed to make on upcoming tests to keep my GPA above a certain number. What’s the difference? I have to put a lot of the blame on the kids for not realizing they’re on a bubble, and making plans to sign with another team if a week or two before signing day USC says, “Sorry, but we’re not going to be able to sign you.”
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Mar 1, 2011 5:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I can see where you're coming from, and I think it's important to acknowledge the recruit's responsibility for the process.
However, I think you’re missing part of the point here. A lot of these kids know that they’re that they’re on the bubble. Mauldin knows that he needs to get his grades up if he wants to get into USC and I’m sure he’s known that all along. Jadeveon Clowney is supposedly in danger of not qualifying, as well. There are lots of guys who may not qualify, and what we do is tell them all that they’ll make the team if they qualify and that we’ll put them in prep school if they don’t. We’re recruiting so many of these kids that we know some of them will not make it. We should also be having conversations with these guys about greyshirting, etc., if that’s part of the equation. The problem is that some of that didn’t seem to happen with the Montgomery kid—although I’d like to wait and see what Spurrier says about this next time he’s asked, as I suspect that the WSJ may not have represented him accurately in this article.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.
The irony in all this is
a. all universities offer more undergraduate admissions than they have actual room for enrollment. in the instances where there is over-enrollment, freshmen – mostly males – get screwed in sub-standard housing. this is not considered oversigning for some reason.
the University of Florida, home of some of the biggest anti-oversigning scolds ( operates on such a financial crisis that it compels its undergraduates to stay in Gainesville at least one summer session. this is not considered anti-student (NB – the biggest anti-oversigning scolds seem to have a history of unusually high ratio of per capita arrests)c. the entire undergraduate education industry is on an unsustainable bubble …. awash with government grants and burdening its students with impossible debt in comparison to average starting salaries for new graduates … that it threatens the very underpinnings of the economy.
… yet were talking about oversigning. what hogwash.
They wore garnet helmets.
I do think oversigning is an important issue. As with anything, I want to see my university as well as the NCAA as a whole operate honorably and ethically.
Where I really agree with you here, though, is that oversigning is small potatoes compared to many of the issues you mention as well as others I mention above. While I would like to see an attempt made to deal with the issue, I also think that most of the most vocal critics of oversigning are nothing but petulant fans who care nothing for the ethics involved in the issue and everything for creating an atmosphere that’s more conducive to seeing their school win on the football field.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.
I'll admit I'm not reading these articles thoroughly, 'cause it's not something that really interests me.
It seems to interest everyone else, though. I just still don’t see the issue. Do kids not know about greyshirting, oversigning, and the fact that recruiters use hyperbole? Shouldn’t their high school coaches, or counselors be telling them this stuff?
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Mar 1, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Wonderful reply - I wonder why we don't look at this the other way. Don't athletic
scholarships give kids who would’nt normally have them, unbelievable opportunities? Asking an athlete to meet minimum standards for academics should not be a problem, especially considering the tremendous support system they have – heck, if I’d had the free tutor opportunities that athletes have when I was an undergrad, maybe my GPA would’ve been easier to maintain to keep my scholarship.
Other states to blame - Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc.
It is a little known fact that minority students in many Southern states (including Georgia and South Carolina) achieve better results on national standardized tests and are thus presumably better educated than their demographic counterparts in states reputed to have “better” educational systems. Black and Hispanic students in South Carolina and Georgia score higher on the ACT than students of color in WI and PA*. The minority students in SC and GA also have lower achievement gaps between their scores and the average scores for the state’s white kids.
Often times (though not exclusively), data that leads to claims of, “our state’s schools are better than your’s”, is just an effect of teaching a more homogeneous, wealthier population of students born of better educated parents. If anyone wants to see the data, contact me through my profiled email and I will send you a link that lays out the numbers, but would almost certainly lead to political discussions inappropriate for GABA.
- I know these two states in particular because one is in the news, and I currently live in the other. However, I work in education and would bet dollars to donuts that it holds true for most, if not all, of the states lying between PA and WI, which would encompass most states of the Big Ten.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Mar 1, 2011 8:17 PM EST reply actions
I would love to see these numbers.
Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina
by The Feathered Warrior on Mar 1, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Please send them my way, as well. Heck, I've already opened the can of worms, so I'm not opposed to you sharing here if you'd like.
Just know, everyone, that political conversations are an exception to the rule here and that you must conduct yourself appropriately. This isn’t the AJC.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.
Something I wrote elsewhere RE SC and PA scores:
Many people will reflexively assume PA schools are much better than SC schools. Three in five fifth grades are illiterate in the city of Philadelphia, and the adult literacy rate barely tops 80%. The city has farmed out any remotely decent education to the extensive private school system.
Much like the WI schools, PA does a decent job of educating middle-class white kids. They do a piss poor job educating everybody else.
Despite the fact that over half SC SR’s take the ACT while only 17% of PA SR’s take the same exam, SC outscores PA among black, Hispanic, and Asian students*. I guarantee you if you isolated public school student scores, the SC deficit among white student scores would narrow, and our advantage among every other ethnicity would expand. That is before you even take into account PA’s advantage in median income (13% higher than SC) and parents’ educational attainment, both of which are closely tied to higher test scores.
A good public school in SC matches up favorably with a good public school anywhere else in the nation. A good public school in GA is better than a good public system anywhere else in the nation.
*The data by ethnicity is found in Table 2.5 on page 16 of the states’ PDF breakdown. Table 2.4 is also interesting, as it demonstrates that remarkably low percentages of PA students of color even receive the minimal core education requirements, defined as four years of HS English, and three years of math, science, and social studies. ACT does not consider foreign language to be “core”, but outside of the affluent white districts, many PA public systems do not require any foreign language instruction.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Mar 2, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for sharing your stuff.
Definitely alters my perspective on the issues here somewhat. I want to stress, though, that when I stated that I think that we’re dealing with historically conditioned poor academic achievement in the recruiting pools our coaches are swimming in, I didn’t mean to give credence to the idea that Southern school systems are worse than northern ones. I can see how I could have been read that way, and certainly I think that’s what the WSJ wants to imply in that article. However, I’m really more fundamentally just pointing out that I think the real battle over oversigning needs to be waged over remedying educational inequities. One of the things that I took away from your piece is that the good news is that many southern states are already making a strong effort in that area.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.
It's easier to just link
Here’s the piece on Wisconsin, and it is specifically tied to the WI teachers’ strike.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Mar 2, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
That your personal blog?
Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina
by The Feathered Warrior on Mar 2, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think the most recent WSJ article makes Spurrier look all that bad.
Spurrier makes the cogent point that he didn’t know this issue was going to come up. We had a better than average year on the recruiting trail, in which we signed two (oh my God, TWO!!) recruits we didn’t have room for. Whoops. Frankly, I’m still a little stunned that we landed Clowney (and Lattimore, and Alshon), but that’s another story. It’s not like we make a habit of it. Spurrier and his staff were stupid for not letting these two know earlier in the process. But you know what? He did the most honorable thing in this tough situation. He picked the two kids that had the most academic work to do. He didn’t pick the two kids who are least likely to ever see the field. He based it on academics. And if those kids never qualified over the summer, then where would we be? South Carolina would be in a worse situation and the kids would be in the same situation. That’s where. I think this quote, among others from Lattimore and other players about Spurrier’s honesty speak volumes about his integrity:
Linebacker Marcquis Roberts, who has committed to Spurrier’s Gamecocks, said he’s generally concerned about oversigning because “it kills a lot of young kids’ dreams,” but when he asked the Gamecock coaches about the numbers, “they explained it to me and didn’t beat around the bush. They’ll tell you if you’re not likely to get on the field,” he said.
Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina
by The Feathered Warrior on Mar 1, 2011 8:29 PM EST reply actions
You're actually touching on something that I think is important here but that I didn't address above.
One of the other things that jumps out at me about our particular situation is that we had an almost unheard of efficiency rate on the recruiting trail this year; just about every guy who seriously considered us chose us in the end. I think I read that everyone except Lateek Townshend who took an official visit chose to come to Carolina. That’s an exceptional acceptance ratio, and I don’t just mean exceptional in the “we did a great job” sense; I also mean it in the “that’s unheard of” sense. That doesn’t happen very often at powerhouse programs, much less South Carolina. So, Spurrier ended up in a situation that he probably hardly expected us to be in. You could say that he’s just doing the best he can with the way the cards fell. Is that an excuse if he didn’t deal transparently with the situation? No. But it puts it in a different light than the article does. I do think Spurrier comes off badly in the article, by the way. We can read between the lines, but the article was intended to paint him in a negative light. In case I didn’t make it clear above, though, I’d like to reiterate that I’m waiting to pass judgment on him. I want to see what continues coming out here. It’s easy for the WSJ to take a few lines out of context and spin them to make a story.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

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