South Carolina Football 2011: Fall Practice Miscellany

by Gamecock Man on Aug 5, 2011 9:49 PM EDT in South Carolina Gamecocks Football

With a couple of practices under the team's belt, a few narratives are beginning to emerge. Here are my thoughts on them.

Damiere Byrd is fast. Defenders are having a lot of trouble keeping up with Byrd. We knew he'd be fast, but it's beginning to sound like that may have been an understatement. Spurrier loves to have a player like this to complement his main receiver. Now we know that he has two: Byrd and Ace Sanders, who is also playing quite well. I can't wait to see the end-around to Sanders with a reverse pitch to Byrd for a 70-yard TD.

The other candidates for second receiver are playing well, too. Jason Barnes is struggling right now, which is a shame considering that I was hoping that this experienced receiver would turn it on this year. However, it sounds like Byrd, Sanders, and Bruce Ellington are going to be contributors this year.

Jadeveon Clowney is the real deal. What we keep reading from the practice reports is that Clowney is manhandling the offensive line nearly constantly. Sometimes, that's been against backup OL Will Sport, but sometimes Clowney is doing the same against likely starting left tackle Kyle Nunn. If Clowney is playing like this against Nunn--an experienced SEC OL who could start for most SEC teams--he's ready to make a difference right here and right now. This is great news for Carolina fans. It means that we can hope with reason that Clowney is going to have an impact that is just as quick Marcus Lattimore's was. Such are the benefits for the team that reels in the country's most highly rated prospect.

Stephon Gilmore is playing well. Some of the other DBs have struggled against our hot WR crew, but Gilmore hasn't. It's good to see Gilmore get back to his lock-down form.

Brandon Wilds may be a wild-card in the race for backup RB. Wilds is apparently playing very well right now. It's very premature to think about him beating out Kenny Miles or Eric Baker for backup, but it's good to hear there's competition.

Shawn Elliott is a wild man. Supposedly, Elliott gets in the teams face every other play and is constantly pumping them up. Considering that he's also apparently a very good tactician, I say you can't have enough coaches like Elliott. Carolina needs confidence to believe that it's capable of what it's capable of. Elliott instills this confidence.

Folks, I'm getting stoked about this season. Who's with me?

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Well

This is after two days without pads.

by freehawk on Aug 5, 2011 11:05 PM EDT reply actions

Shawn Elliott

Did you see the video of App State at Michigan, where Elliott was pumping up the team? He was the “pump em up” coach for the whole team. Also showed him working with his O linemen.

by freehawk on Aug 5, 2011 11:05 PM EDT reply actions

I'm so pumped

RE who is stoked? I’m so stoked that seriously considering getting silver82blade a month of netzero so he can come back and assure me that we’re really not all that great or all that loaded! All joking aside I find myself missing his take on things.

RE Elliot. He has been a tremendous find. A native South Carolinian. A stick-to-it guy. We need to do whatever is necesessary to keep him at USC, because some very good FCS teams are going to come calling for him to head coach. I can see him head coaching one day for an FBS team.

As excited as I am about Elliot’s future, I’m worried about Mangus. Not so much what did or didn’t happen in Greenville, but I am concerned about whether Hyman came down on him too hard. Docked one month’s salary? Permanent probation? No raise next year?

For a DUI – yes. Or getting caught with a hooker? Yes. For public nuisance after the man is already humiliated in the national media and even a punk loser wannabe like Tahj Boyd mocks him? Too much. We really depend on Mangus both for position coaching and recruting. I’m concerned he wont move on and make a fresh start. Do you want to see him coaching at UNC next year? Me either. He’s already one of the lowest paid guys on the staff. Hyman needs to relent.

As much as I love Hyman as the money-side A.D., I have serious concerns that he is the right personnel side A.D.

Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)

by tryptic67 on Aug 6, 2011 9:01 AM EDT reply actions

I agree with you that Hyman is being too hard on Mangus...

However, this kind of response has become par for the course in all walks of life, so I blame the professional culture more so than Hyman. Employers now seem to be as interested in evaluating their employees’ personal lives as they are in evaluating their professional performance. That’s counterproductive both for the employee and the employer—as you say, it would hurt USC is Mangus leaves because he feels that he’s being unjustly treated. I say that we should let the legal system take care of Hyman’s mistake and leave it at that. There’s no need for professional discipline here, at least as long as there aren’t more underlying problems like alcoholism involved. The case would be different if this were a more serious infraction, but it’s not.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Aug 6, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm OK with it.

It’s not like he’s living at the poverty line. His family will be able to handle one month’s docked pay. You have to set an example – exspecially with the Garcia situation never far from anyone’s mind.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 6, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Damn.

Almost a whole post without a typo.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 6, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think it's the employer's place to "make an example" of someone. The legal system will take care of that. I guess that's where we differ here.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Aug 6, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think they're making an example out of him.

Which is to say that I don’t think his punishment is any more severe than it would be for any other football coach. But employers have the right to protect their interests within reasonable limits – and the image of the University is definitely an interest. Coach Mangus probably violated his contract and the Carolina Creed, both, in doing what he did. Similar punishments are doled out in all professions. Lawyers, doctors, and CPA will lose their license if tacked with a DUI. This doesn’t rise to the level of a DUI, so Mangus didn’t lose his job. Students can have their scholarships revoked. Other similar examples include Roger Goodell reprimanding Michael Vick and Adam Jones. Or in politics, a Senator distancing himself from an embarrassing aid. Actions have consequences beyond just those doled out by the legal system. I don’t see Eric Hyman over-stepping his bounds as a CEO in the least.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 6, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't know.

When reading arguments like this, I often find the statement that “Actions have consequences beyond those doled out by the legal system.” I’m not sure I’m so happy with the way this argument tend to be left at that. I feel that this statement is so popular because it provides a commonsensical rationale for everyone’s desire to play judge, jury, and executioner. Don’t get me wrong; I think Mangus deserves some form of extra-legal punishment for what happened. He needs some kind of probationary period, and he needs to be evaluated for alcohol abuse. However, docking a month’s pay seems a little excessive to me. I know he can afford it, but it’s further humiliation for a guy who’s probably already suffered enough of that for the time being.

What really jumps out at me about this story is that 20 years ago, hardly anyone would even be talking about this. However, because of the internet, everyone in the nation is talking about it. What we’ve learned from the rise of the internet is that everyone has a bit of dirty laundry. Maybe that means we should think twice about coming down so hard on some of these folks.

Also, I don’t think a lawyer would lose his license in most states for a DUI. I’ve met multiple lawyers with DUIs. I think you usually need two or three to get debarred, depending on the state. Of course, things are different if you were in a bad accident and someone got hurt, in which case the DUI is a felony offense. Presumably, any felony offense means loss of license. I don’t know about medicine or accounting.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Aug 7, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions

I still think the punichment is fair,

considering what some would have the AD regarding Mangus.

Ah, Ron Morris.

Sorry, meant to say “Ugh, Ron Morris.”

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 7, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Ack! Again with these blasted typos!

I might just retire from commenting until the season starts.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 7, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

That article was a huge waste of my time. At the very least, we can all agree that Mangus wasn't underpunished.

Only Morris could spin this story that way.

Did Morris ever write a story about DeAndre McDaniels beating up his girlfriend?

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Aug 7, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, Morris is ridiculously off-base.

He conveniently fails to mention the improving APR, graduation rates, and team GPA. What would holding Mangus out of Practice even accomplish? Nothing. And Garcia’s not missing a game has more to do with the timing of his incidents than anything. Comparing Lonnie Chisenhall to Garcia is just plain stupid.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 7, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

If I may be so bold to weigh in here

First, I didn’t read the Morris article because it wasn’t worth my time.

Second, I agree with FW that the punishment that GA received was fair and valid. I always find it interesting when someone says ‘let the legal system determine his punishment’ when referring to punishments given by schools or employers. That’s not the legal system’s job. The legal system’s job is to try to discourage socially destructive or costly behavior and to provide a means to help correct offenders’ behavior. The repercussions that occur in a work place are within the jurisdiction of the organization. When an employee acts in a manner unbecoming an employee of good standing, it is the right of that organization for punish how it sees fit. This is more true in cases where the employee is in a high profile position. Its not just GA Mangus that gets in the newspaper, its the University of South Carolina, they cannot be separated in the public eye. As far as severity, a DUI got the AD at UGA fired, so I think this is right in line with what it should be.

Sorry if I rambled too much.

by Charlestowne on Aug 8, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions

I seem to recall that it wasn't just the DUI that got Damon Evans fired; it was the adultery and the fact that he essentially tried to cover it up. I believe I read somewhere that if it had just been a standard DUI, he would have been allowed to keep...

his job, presumably with the standard alcohol treatment and probation.

Regardless, I can see your point, although when I say “let the legal system” work it out, I don’t mean that I think they should determine employment consequences; I mean that I don’t think there should be employment consequences, unless, of course, we’re talking about someone doing something that compromises his/her ability to do the job in question. I get, though, that in most states in the US, employers can essentially treat employees however they want to, and certainly there are worse abuses of that fact than handing out punishments to law-breakers.

I guess I should also say that one of the things that bothers me about this situation isn’t so much that USC decided to punish Mangus. Rather, it’s the specific punishment Hyman chose. Docking Mangus a months pay while Mangus is still working is kindof like saying, “we can’t do without you on the football field, so you’re going to have to work for free.” If what Mangus had done deserved a suspension without pay, that’s one thing. But obviously it doesn’t, so I think we should pay the man. Maybe give him a suspension without pay after the season’s over? Or, if he’s so important to the team that we can’t do that, then USC needs to get over it and let the guy do his job.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Aug 8, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions

That's a fair concern.

But then you get into the question of who is actually being punished. Keeping Mangus from the sidelines would negatively impact the players, fans, and school – all of whom did nothing wrong. A month’s pay is a more precise punishment that really only affects the doer of the deed (and his family, but they are really one in the same in this issue).

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Aug 8, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, I certainly don't think the players should be punished.

But I also feel like that if we think that he’s indispensable, then he should get paid. Asking someone to work for free is sketchy, IMO. Granted, perhaps there’s something in his contract that provides for this sort of thing, and if that’s the case, that makes the situation a bit different.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.

by Gamecock Man on Aug 9, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions