The Question of Permanent Cross-Division Rivals: Part 1
On Monday, January 9th, the Austin Statesman ran a short article quoting the Southeastern Conference's chief public relations spokesman:
"There might not be a permanent rival," said Charles Bloom, the SEC's associate commissioner. "Don't read anything into next year's schedule. But we are staying with eight conference (football) games."
Charles Bloom is not some low-level functionary running his mouth to some reporter new to the SEC beat who should know better than to print idle speculation. In fact, he has run the SEC's media office for 15 years, having been elevated to the position of Associate Commissioner for Media Relations nine years ago.
A 1985 graduate of the University of South Carolina (Ed - why hasn't anyone run a piece on him recently?), Bloom is a native of Emporia, Virginia who after graduation worked as an assistant sports information director at LSU and Ole Miss before serving as the ECU's SID/Assistant AD from 1988-1995. He joined the SEC in 1995 and has been with the league ever since. Bloom is a consummate sports information/media professional, and in 2011 was honored by induction into the College Sports Information Director's Association (CoSIDA) hall of fame. Not coincidentally he is a past president of the CoSIDA.
Basically, if you've heard or read anything out of Birmingham in the past 15 years - whether print, digital media or otherwise - it almost certainly crossed Bloom's desk. His twitter handle is @SECPRGuy. Short of Mike Slive, he's got the most influential voice in the league office. He's not the kind of guy who commits "gaffes" or spitballs random flights of fancy to reporters.
In a conference as devoted to tradition as the SEC, a comment like this - from a guy like Bloom - is more than just dropping a cow paddy in the punch bowl. It's an intentional trial balloon sent up before an atomic test blast. And don't think for a minute that blasting the permanent cross-divisional rivals, while keeping the current division set-up, isn't akin to a Bikini Toll. The repercussions will be severe with some of the conference's most powerful, charter members.
But is dropping permanent cross-division rivals a good idea - even it going to gore some of the league's top oxes? Before we can answer that question in part 2 of this series, we need to take a trip through recent SEC history.
Keep reading after The Jump!
When the Southeastern Conference expanded to twelve teams for the 1992 season, it was required to split into two divisions in order to meet the NCAA's requirements to host a championship game - the SECCG being the primary rationale for expanding from ten members to twelve in the first place.
Led by former commissioner Roy Kramer, the league wisely decided to create the two new divisions on rough geographic lines (thereby avoiding the mistake both the ACC and Big 10 would later make when each jury-rigged their division splits).
By placing Auburn and Alabama in the Western Division, however, the conference office risked ruffling a lot of feathers because of the number of cherished match-ups which were threatened: e.g., UGA-Auburn, UT-Bama, UT-Auburn, UGA-Ole Miss and UF-Auburn - just to name a few.
To dampen the culture shock for the charter members, the Brave New SEC adopted what would become colloquially known as the 5-2-1 rotation, i.e., an eight conference game schedule in which five would be against division rivals (a full divisional round robin), two permanent cross-divisional rivals, and one rotating home-and-home series with a cross-division opponent. The original permanent cross-division rivals were:
East
Georgia - 1. Auburn 2. Ole Miss
Florida - 1. Auburn 2. LSU
Kentucky - 1. LSU 2. MSU
South Carolina - 1. Arkansas 2. MSU
Tennessee - 1. Alabama 2. Arkansas
Vanderbilt - 1. Ole Miss 2. Alabama
West
Alabama - 1. Tennessee 2. Vanderbilt
Auburn - 1. Georgia 2. Florida
Arkansas - 1. South Carolina 2. Tennessee
LSU - 1. Florida 2. Kentucky
Mississippi - 1. Vanderbilt 2. Georgia
Mississippi State - 1. Kentucky 2. South Carolina
This arrangement preserved all the "traditional" rivalries (with the notable exception of UT-Auburn), along with the three in-state match-ups (the Iron Bowl, the Egg Bowl and UT-Vandy) and some tilts that had not been seriously contested in decades - e.g., LSU-Ole Miss, UK-UT, but still meant something to older fans and historians of their school's traditions.
Nevertheless, in preserving the mos maiorum, some of the "permanent" cross-division rivalries were bloodless affairs (e.g., Tennessee-Arkansas, South Carolina-Arkansas) and some were clearly mismatches from the get-go (Alabama-Vandy, LSU-Kentucky). Worst of all, with only one rotating cross-division opponent, it would take a team eight years to cycle through its home-and-home series with the non-permanent rivals. It was a one-size fits all solution to preserve several critical rivalries by forcing others to face permanent opponents with whom they had little in common.
By the time the first 5-2-1 rota made a complete cycle at the end of the 1999 season, the league members were ready for a change. Of primary concern was the feeling some schools had a built-in advantage over others with their "easier" permanent rivals. Additionally, the schedules had become static and boring to a lot of fans; it would create more excitement, and be more fair, if all the league teams played each other more frequently.
Consequently, whether they liked it or not, in 2000 each club dropped its second "permanent" rival and the league went to a 5-1-2 schedule with one permanent cross-divisional rival, and two rotating opponents. Now it would take only five years to roll through the rotating division opponents.
It wasn't a totally bloodless result: many considered the loss of the annual UF-Auburn game as a significant blow to both squads; likewise, UGA-Ole Miss was a sentimental loss, just like Ole Miss-Vanderbilt - both of which had become fairly lopsided, but still ancient and beloved. Nevertheless, the unbreakable rivalries were still preserved and the twelve members accepted the new landscape without (much) complaining.
And so the 5-1-2 bumped along for twelve years. It probably would never have been changed, in fact, except that the league expanded to 14 teams.
So here we are. Should we keep the permanent cross-divisional rival system? Or scrap it? That will be the focal point of Part 2.
24 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
It would likely be most fair for most involved to do away with the permanent rivalries.
That said, I can’t see it happening, and I’m not sure I would want it to. Not that I care all that much for the Arkansas rivalry, even if I do enjoy it in a way, but I do like the series between UGA-AU and UA-UT. It would be a shame to see them go.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
Maybe we can suggest a straddle ...
heh
Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)
If it weren't for the tricky requirement for "divisions" to have a conference championship game
and I’d be tempted to dare them to stop up however we wanted to do things. But if it weren’t for that, I’d suggest doing away with divisions altogether. Do a pod style 4 teams as permanent rivals, 4 teams rotate amongst the others adding 2 and losing 2 every year, on a constant home/away and away/home rotation like has been done with Western foes until now.
For South Carolina, they keep Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, and Kentucky.
For say Georgia, your permanent 4 would be Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, and Tennessee.
For Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, Auburn, and Tennessee.
For LSU, Ole Miss, Arkansas, A&M, and Bama.
For Arkansas, A&M, LSU, Missouri, and Miss St.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
That's a good idea. I wonder if there would be a way to select a championship-game participants with that format.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Jan 16, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
there is only one problem with the format laid out above.
you would need to have a semi-final game for determining the conference champion. And then it gets to be a situation where it could just be too many games. You could keep it at 8 conference games, and 4 OOC. then you would have an SEC Semi-Final, and then the SECCG. Then if a playoff is introduced you might have a bowl game or semi-final, and then after that you would have a NCG.
To expect a student-athlete to play in 16 college football games sounds a bit extreme. This is of course unless someone has a better method for selecting the SECCG participants in a method that can select teams one and two in a method that is more or less indisputable. For all its flaws, (the elimination of certain rivalries or variable strength of schedule from year to year) the divisions system is about as effective as possible in determining the SEC Championship Game participants.
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
No, you wouldn't need that
perhaps I didn’t explain the idea clear, but that is nowhere even close to necessary. I’m not advocating 4 divisions of 4 teams. I’m saying all in the pool, like with basketball now, with scheduling as described, and top 2 records make the SEC C game.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
This would be certainly an interesting discussion over at Team Speed Kills.
Only because we could get more input from other teams. But the only problem is you only get 4 permanent opponents(I admit that there will be flaws to any system. But I am curious how the numbers would work out. There are two sides to every matchup, Georgia is the SEC opponent that I want most strongly to play, but I bet Georgia has USC 4th, at best on their list of desired permanents. Actually, USC might be tied with Ole Miss or behind Ole Miss as a desired permanent opponent.
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Jan 16, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Championship game?
Top 2 records overall. In case of a tie for 2nd, BCS rankings or head to head.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds good to me. Would mean Carolina wouldn't have made it in 2010, but in truth, that would have been fair to Arkansas.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Jan 16, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Goes to the corner to noodle with it...
will flesh out all 4 team setting in the future.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Man, I know what would be a good money-maker.
They could unveil the new SEC Network and have a live team draft. They determine the rules and say you can watch as the AD’s and Presidents draft their permanent opponents in the new and expanded SEC. Man, I miss football already, can you tell I have too much time on my hands?
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Jan 16, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
thoughts fleshed out...
complete with the 4 team sets (which got quite difficult for some on who to cut, and others on who to add).
http://www.sportsandgrits.com/2012/01/proposal-for-altering-sec-football.html
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 17, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Considering that every team has to have 4 permanents....
and no team could have more than 4, I think you did a very fair job. As a Georgia fan, how do you feel about the teams that ended up as Georgia’s permanent opponents? The South Carolina opponents work pretty well. We get to keep UT, UGA and UF, and we keep Kentucky. From a USC fan’s perspective, it seems like Kentucky fans really hate us. It may completely false, but man it seems like they more than any team in the SEC get excited when we show up on their schedule.
So Georgia doesn’t get Tennessee, is that cool with you? I know this matchup doesn’t have the history that other matchups have for Georgia, but it is one that has gotten really good since being in the East together.
For me, it got tough when thinking about who Missouri or Vanderbilt would want to play.
After looking at it, would you think about changing it to 5 permanents and 3 rotating, and still scrap the divisions? Are there any other alterations or improvements you would consider?
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Jan 17, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure it can be altered, and 5/3 could work...
As for the opponents I gave Georgia, you had to keep South Carolina, Florida, and Auburn. Tennessee was originally the 4th, but they just had too many. They have to keep Kentucky, Alabama, and I probably should have given them Vandy too. They also had a rivalry recently built with us, Florida, and South Carolina. It was hard to figure who to leave out from that group.
So we get Florida, SC, Auburn, and ultimately Missouri 4th just because the crossing had to work, and I got stuck on a lot of teams around 3.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Actually I kind of like the symmetry of 4 rotating opponents.
I think we are heading to a 9 game season, so 5/4 could work out very well. With 14 teams currently it would take you 4 years to play everyone, so rivalries like uga-ole miss or aub-uf or aub-ut would still get to see each other often even if not every year.
The only problem with abandoning the division system is my fear of chaos and ridiculous tie-breakers.
Btw, the more we talk about this the less excited I am about Mizzou and aTm joining the league. This must be how uga and others felt in 92.
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Jan 17, 2012 9:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
This. The divisions are irrelevant and dumb. Get rid of them!
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
You have to have 'em
to have the SECCG. At least that’s what I’m told because I don’t have (and can’t find) the complete NCAA Rules.
Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)
Rule 17.9.5.2 (c)
© Twelve-Member Conference Championship Game. [FBS/FCS] A conference championship game between division champions of a member conference of 12 or more institutions that is divided into two divisions (of six or more institutions each), each of which conducts round-robin, regular-season competition among the members of that division;
Which is why I added the line, that we could always say screw that, do this anyway, and dare them to stop us. Because honestly, would they risk pissing off their biggest cash cow who in the past has more than shown a willingness to walk away and keep their money for themselves (see the creation of College Football Association and the NCAA v Bd of Regents for Univ. of Oklahoma case).
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Thanks for posting the link
what’s your take on 17.9.5.2( c)‘s applicabilty where – like the SEC’s 2012 schedule – there is no complete divisional round robin? Aren’t we already stretching the rule a bit and daring them to stop us? Or did we get a waiver (that I missed).
Mulling over your permanent 4 rival suggestion … from our last exchange over at Dawg Sports, you probably have a good idea where I’m headed, however …
Here's a health, Carolina, forever to thee! UNIVERSITAS CAROLIN MERID. 1801 Emollit mores nec sinit esse feros (Ovid)
No idea where your headed
my memory ain’t what it used to be.
And I’m not sure what you mean about the 2012 schedule. We do have round-robin in the division, same as always. That’s why schedules got moved around so everyone from the East could have Missouri + the other 5, and everyone in the West could add A&M to their current 5 intra-division match ups. On the whole, I think it’s just a burden that doesn’t mean much because the NCAA loves their hoops jumping for no reason just cause we said so. But we have always had, and I assume will have as long as the rule is in place as currently written, round-robin play amongst divisional foes. We add to it for the full conference schedule and conference record, but the round-robin will always be the primary piece.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
We could maintain what we have if we expanded SEC play by one game
Do we really need late-season games against the likes of the Citadel, Middle Tennessee, etc. as we typically see?
Sure, this would increase the chances of picking up another loss and hurt bowl chances a little, but it would give us one more competitive game as fans and it would allow us to preserve something pretty close to the existing system even with expansion; call it a 5-1-3.
one more point...
Under a 5-1-3 system the odds that both Alabama and LSU would have avoided the two top teams from the East (before the SECCG) would have been very low. Maybe this would have decreased the odds of the much maligned all SEC national championship game.
by bosoxrock913 on Jan 16, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions

by 















