Of Clemson and culture shifts

by RumblinFish on Nov 29, 2025 1:22 PM EST

For obvious reasons, this has been a landmark season for Carolina, and Spurrier has finally achieved some of the things he set out to do. The most important of these, in my opinion, is our program's attitude toward Clemson.

If you recall when Spurrier came to Carolina, he ordered all the Clemson-related signage in our stadium taken down. He went on record not once, but several times as saying that the rivalry game is not the end all, be all. I was one of many fans who thought he was crazy and underestimating the game's importance. I won't lie; it really rubbed me the wrong way at the time.

But now, I think I understand where he was going with all this.

We're beating Clemson because we are no longer obsessed with beating Clemson.

I realize that's kind of an strange thing to say, but I really think it's true. Spurrier encouraged fans and players to set their goals higher and they have. We don't have to be an average, middling team that's just hoping for a win over their rival to redeem the season. Now we have things to look forward to: a division title, a conference championship game, stellar recruits. He wants us to focus on the big boys because you can't do big boy things if you don't. And finally, we are starting to find ourselves as equals on the playing field with traditional SEC East powers.

Don't get me wrong -- Clemson is an incredibly important game and one that we should absolutely strive to win every year. But I think Spurrier has a done a great job with removing some of Clemson's mystique and taking them off of their pedestal. It helps, of course, that Clemson is an out-of-conference opponent; were they in the SEC and especially in our division, the game would even more important than it is now. But in the grand scheme of things, at least when it comes to competing for SEC championships, he's right. The Clemson game is NOT the big enchilada, unless you're just desperate for bragging rights to cap off a 6-6 or 7-5 campaign.

Spurrier wanted this team and this program to aim higher. It took six years -- and that is actually kind of incredible, since we have 115 years of mediocrity in our past -- but Carolina has responded.

It's hard to break out of a comfortable rut and it's hard to push yourself, but it's happening. We don't have to measure our success purely by the Clemson game anymore because we're creating our own standards. Tiger fans can live in the past all they want; what matters is the present, and the pendulum is swinging in the other direction.

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Good stuff

by Skulls and Spurs on Nov 29, 2025 4:02 PM EST reply actions

Interesting take on things

I need to think about it. On the one hand, I distinctly remember after the ‘06 game the HBC was talking it up as a very big victory, but when UK beat Clemson in the Music City Bowl, he said something to the effect “even Kentucky beat them” which wasn’t well received in either Blue Grass County or Pickens County, SC.

On the other hand, what else could explain the way Spurrier is so solicitous, chummy and congratulatory about Dabo Swinney and his staff. For a man who tripped FSU and UNC at his last two gigs, the HBC is so nice to Clemson that you can’t attribute it simply to becoming kinder as he ages, or humility learned from coaching the Redskins, or being told to defuse the intensity from the Brawl Game in 04. So maybe you make a good point. Perhaps less intensity means more productivity vis-a-vis the rivalry.

One explanation is that de-emphasis its more for the players’ benefit than fans. They’ve already been through the SEC meat grinder and no need for them to get too emotional about a non-conference game. But for me, nothing SOS says (or doesnt say) will make me not have beating Clemson as our first goal every year. I think most fans feel the same way. I’m not saying its the ultimate goal, but the first goal that I’d write on the whiteboard … 1. Beat CU … 2. Winning Season record …. 3. Bowl eligible … 4. Winning SEC season record …. etc In other words, beating CU is the lowest acceptable achievement for a Gamecock squad no matter what else has happened in the season.

Does that make sense? If de-emphasizing the CU game helps the players focus, then great. It doesn’t do a d**** thing for me. And if most players are from South Carolina, it won’t do much for them either. They can feel how big this was. Not just beating CU, but not looking past them.

The game always has mystique because we owe them generational pay-back for football. And it will always have elevated meaning because Clemson was built not as a complement to Carolina, but as a political weapon built to supplant and overshadow our University. Think I’m exaggerating? Go back and read the history from that period. My biggest beef with Spurrier, in fact, is that he is only 3-3 against the Tigers when he should have won in 05 (lost 9-13) and 07 (lost on last second FG (21-23) when we were at home and ranked both times. He should be at least 5-1 against Bowden/Swinney.

Finally, the Clemson game matters for recruiting big-time. The rumor is that Lateek Townsend was on the field celebrating with the Cocks. Shamier Jeffery decided to give up the recruiting “show” the day after we win. That sort of stuff is the big time enchilada for me. And I think it is for Steve Spurrier, too.

They wore garnet helmets.

by tryptic67 on Nov 29, 2025 4:03 PM EST reply actions

Some good points.

I’m not sure why Spurrier is so chummy with Swinney. Part of me thinks he enjoys Dabo being around because he’s simply not a very good coach, but maybe he just doesn’t care as much about Clemson since they’re a non-conference opponent. I think Spurrier might also feel like he has bigger fish to fry and better things to do while here at Carolina. He’s mentioned Clemson’s domination in the series a few times before and so maybe he thinks it’s not much of a rivalry. To that end, I think Spurrier is still getting an education on just how important the Clemson game is. Records be damned; it’s still a passionate competition.

As for your other point about CU being the lowest acceptable achievement, I’m not quite sure I follow (or agree). I suppose it’s a difference of opinion, though. For example, if I had to choose between, say, beating Clemson or winning the SECCG, I’d pick the SECCG. Of course, I’d always rather us beat Clemson AND achieve our other goals, and I do agree with you that beating CU should always be a priority. I hate ‘em as much as anyone. I just don’t think I value that win more than I value conference championships and national prominence.

Oh, and in terms of recruiting, you’re absolutely right that beating Clemson is important for getting in-state kids and sending a message to other elite prospects. If we really want to rise above, we need to establish a new world order, and we have definitely taken steps to do that this year.

by RumblinFish on Nov 29, 2025 7:14 PM EST up reply actions

I probably didnt do a good job explaining ...

What I was trying to say I that our minimum year-in-and-year-out expectation — no matter what else we accomplish in a given season — will do everything in our power to beat our in-state rival. In other words, even if we go 0-11 against the balance of the schedule, we will expect nothing short of best effort from coaches and players against Clemson.

We’re in total agreement that beating Clemson is not the most important goal. Nor is it the only goal. It is merely one of many goals. We should not be content to go 1-12 with just a Clemson win (of course), nor even 6-6 with a Clemson win.
But while that may seem absurd in 2010, having lived through 1999 and 2000 seasons, its not a merely academic exercise - we played really hard games against the Tigers those seasons. If we had won them, we’d at least have one notch on our belt.

So, yes, we obviously have other girls which are equally if not more important - often far more important - than beating Clemson. Clearly, the most important goals would be (a) to win a football NC and then work your way down from there. But beating Clemson is the foundational goal - i.e., the “lowest acceptable achievement” which is an awkward way of putting it.

Put another way, anything else we achieve in a given season … even a chance to play for the national championship as a one loss SEC team …. would be painfully tainted by a Clemson loss. I think Spurrier gets it.

They wore garnet helmets.

by tryptic67 on Nov 29, 2025 10:14 PM EST up reply actions

I don't care anything about the rivalry.

I think the whole history of it is lame.

“Can we please have a farming college?”

“No, we should be the only college anywhere in the world, ever, ‘cause we like to play monopoly, even though the game won’t be invented for 20 years … Also, you’ll probably let those black people in, yuck.”

“Too bad, we have a college now, so nanner nanner. Let’s go storm their campus with guns and such, ‘cause we’re cooler. Also, we now hate black people for some reason.”

“Ha! We won the Battle of No Shots Fired. That proves we’re the coolest. Also, we now like black people, so there.”

“We beat you a bunch in sports, like a lot of times.”

“Oh fudge, what have we done …”

I think it’s lame to hate people, but it’s super lame for groups to hate each other for a century plus. If we were going to have a rival for rivlary week, it should be an SEC team, so we can play another out of conference team we’re likely to beat more often.

I wonder if the only reason Clemson gets good recruits is ‘cause we legitimize them by having a rivalry with them. If they weren’t the rivals of the flagship university of the state, would anyone know who they were outside of the upcountry; and would they get as many recruits from the upcountry, or would the kids just go to the state’s main university?

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Nov 29, 2025 5:45 PM EST reply actions

Clemson's success at recruiting is often a mystery to non-CU folks.

Personally, I don’t know how they do it. They’ve managed to pull top-notch classes for the last five or so years despite failing to develop some of that talent to its potential. I understand kids going to Clemson because they grew up as fans, fell in love with the campus, or would be guaranteed to start, but why go otherwise? Their recent coaches haven’t been anything to write home about and Clemson’s AD is not fully committed to helping the football team to succeed. And yet CU has been getting all these elite skill players — even from out of state — despite the fact they’ve virtually ignored OL recruiting. We learned that lesson the hard way and paid for it dearly; guess our Tiger friends will have to endure the same pain of having no one to block for their star recruits.

by RumblinFish on Nov 29, 2025 7:19 PM EST up reply actions

Im sure you've visited

so you’ve seen the (a) nice campus setting; (b) the great football facilities; ( c) all the bowl championships, traditions and trappings of a major winning program; and (d) the abundance of attractive girls.

You’re right Clemson has been pretty mediocre of late, and the coaching (particularly on the O side) has been woeful … with a former WR coach as HC, why do Clemson receivers drop so many balls … why do Clemson QB’s seem to regress every year they remain in the program … with one OL coach for the past 10 years, why does Clemson always seem to be putting together a patch-work O line at the beginning of each season?

On the other hand - while Clemson may have poor x’s-and-o’s coaches, they ‘re top recruiters who can sell the school, sell early p.t., sell the “family” atmosphere, sell the fact that the ACC is wide open, sell the “fact” that they’ve only missed a championship by “this” much or just because they didn’t have “that” one player … and, for in-state players, sell the fact that USC will never prosper in the SEC. Ooops. Well, they won’t have that last one to boast around anymore.

I think you’ve recently seen that most of the in-state talent (and I assume most of the local H.S. coaches) have seen that the CU recruiting process is smoke-and-mirrors at best, and bait-and-switch at worse. Marcus Lattimore didnt give them a look. Jadaveon Clowney has been totally disinterested in Clemson. With the possible exception of Ellington and Bowers, CU’s real recruting successes are mostly out-of-state guys from Florida and Georgia.

Back to OL recruiting, I think our Clemson friends feel it keenly. They remember stacking OL like cordwood (fav cliche) back in the 115 scholarship days, and they know Fat Brad Scott is the architect of their OL misery. Look for Brad Scott (finally) to be shown the door right after they fire Billy Napier (assuming he isnt offered the Furman job).

They wore garnet helmets.

by tryptic67 on Nov 29, 2025 10:32 PM EST up reply actions

I've never even been to Clemson.

I’ll take your word for it.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Nov 30, 2025 12:56 AM EST up reply actions

First home of the Carolina Panthers?

ya can’t hate it too much then can you? Personally, I think rebuffing the Panthers request to use Williams-Brice stadium was Mike McGee’s biggest mistake (yes, even including his decision to put all his eggs in enticing Tubby Smith to leave UK to replace Eddie Fogler, only to fail and then have to settle for Davey Odom instead).

They wore garnet helmets.

by tryptic67 on Nov 30, 2025 6:49 AM EST up reply actions